User:PluMGMK/Plums and Posts in Rayman 2: Difference between revisions

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==The Basic Setup==

Just inside the entrance to [[Sanctuary of Stone and Fire|the level]], there is a secret room at the bottom of a fissure that can be accessed only by riding a [[plum]] on the [[lava]], down a narrow corridor. At the end of the corridor there is another [[plum]] tree on dry land, and a post in the middle of some hot lava. The idea is to get the [[plum]] from the tree, throw it onto the post, and use the resulting platform to hop up to a higher level. Up there, there is another [[plum]] growing, over a ledge looking out onto a very hot region with some more stone ledges, and pillars with posts sticking out of them. Here, the new [[plum]] should be thrown at one of the posts, from which it will fall. [[Rayman]] needs to stand under it to catch it and throw it to the next post, from which it will also fall. He needs to catch it again and then place it on horizontal ground. He can then jump on it and access a high corridor, at the end of which is a [[cage]] containing a [[Super Yellow Lum]].

Just inside the entrance to [[Sanctuary of Stone and Fire|the level]], there is a secret room at the bottom of a fissure that can be accessed only by riding a [[plum]] on the lava, down a narrow corridor. At the end of the corridor there is another [[plum]] tree on dry land, and a post in the middle of some hot lava. The idea is to get the [[plum]] from the tree, throw it onto the post, and use the resulting platform to hop up to a higher level. Up there, there is another [[plum]] growing, over a ledge looking out onto a very hot region with some more stone ledges, and pillars with posts sticking out of them. Here, the new [[plum]] should be thrown at one of the posts, from which it will fall. [[Rayman]] needs to stand under it to catch it and throw it to the next post, from which it will also fall. He needs to catch it again and then place it on horizontal ground. He can then jump on it and access a high corridor, at the end of which is a [[cage]] containing a [[Super Yellow Lum]].

Playing this game, one would intuitively think that whether the [[plum]] stays on the post, or falls after a few seconds, is a property of the posts themselves. Presumably this is the in-[[Glade of Dreams|universe]] physical explanation.

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==First Indications of Something Unorthodox==

Having played ''[[Rayman 2]]'' for many years, I have tried several times to change things slightly, by using the [[plum]] on which I ride in to form the platform with the first post, instead of taking a new one from the tree. After all, [[plum]]s are a precious natural resource, so why waste one? Anyway, attempts to do this ''always'' failed, suggesting that the issue wasn't lack of skill or bad luck on my part. Still, I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. Maybe all that bouncing on [[lava]] simply softened the [[plum]] up too much so the post could no longer pierce it in the desired manner.

Having played ''[[Rayman 2]]'' for many years, I have tried several times to change things slightly, by using the [[plum]] on which I ride in to form the platform with the first post, instead of taking a new one from the tree. After all, [[plum]]s are a precious natural resource, so why waste one? Anyway, attempts to do this ''always'' failed, suggesting that the issue wasn't lack of skill or bad luck on my part. Still, I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. Maybe all that bouncing on lava simply softened the [[plum]] up too much so the post could no longer pierce it in the desired manner.

This changed in May 2017 when, during a conversation with [[User:Ray502|Ray502]] in a [https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4651 forum game thread], I published [https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4651&p=1217110&hilit=posts#p1217147 a video] demonstrating the phenomenon. [[User:Droolie|Droolie]] suggested looking more closely at the matter.

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# [[Plum]]s that stick to posts permanently, of which the first plum on the lower-level tree is the only specimen

# [[Plum]]s that stick to posts for a few seconds, then quiver and fall, of which the second plum, up on the ledge, is the only specimen

[[Ubisoft|The developers]] attempted to cover this up by putting an invisible wall between the ledge and the lower level, that blocks all plums. Nevertheless, the video clearly shows that there was a big enough window to get the "quivering" [[plum]] onto the supposedly stable post, provided one is willing to allow [[Rayman]] to die in the process. [[User:Adsolution|Adsolution's]] [[RayTwol]] editor also allows the entities to be moved so that the phenomenon can be [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=XZTXzJJY4w0 illustrated] without doing battle with the invisible wall.

[[Ubisoft|The developers]] attempted to cover this up by putting an invisible wall between the ledge and the lower level, that blocks all plums. Nevertheless, the video clearly shows that there was a big enough window to get the "quivering" [[plum]] onto the supposedly stable post, provided one is willing to allow [[Rayman]] to die in the process. [[User:Adsolution|Adsolution's]] [https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=25013 RayTwol] editor also allows the entities to be moved so that the phenomenon can be [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=XZTXzJJY4w0 illustrated] without doing battle with the invisible wall.

[[User:Droolie|Droolie]] speculated about the relation, if any, between these "checkpoint" entities to which [[plum]]s bind, and the bases for the [[magic sphere]]s. This has not been investigated thoroughly, and it would be difficult to ascertain much information since there is obviously no level containing both plum posts and magic spheres.

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One year later, [[User:The Jonster|The Jonster]] decided to investigate this in the [[Rayman Revolution|PlayStation 2 port of the game]], which is known to fix some glitches, while introducing a plethora of new ones. It [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ht6r0NjS0 turns out] that the plums work exactly the same way, but the invisible wall to cover up the phenomenon was removed! This makes it even more strange that it took almost twenty years to discover these anomalies, but at least we know now!

Note that this is somewhat reminiscent of the phenomenon of the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ExYL3NsK4 "regenerating"] [[~~barrel pirate~~]], investigated by [[User:Master|Master]]. While it is easy enough to detect in ''[[Rayman Revolution|Revolution]]'', it turns out that it occurs in the PC version too, but is covered up much better (in this case by hiding the [[~~barrel pirate~~]]'s lifebar before any spontaneous health changes occur).

Note that this is somewhat reminiscent of the phenomenon of the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ExYL3NsK4 "regenerating"] [[Barrel Pirate]], investigated by [[User:Master|Master]]. While it is easy enough to detect in ''[[Rayman Revolution|Revolution]]'', it turns out that it occurs in the PC version too, but is covered up much better (in this case by hiding the [[Barrel Pirate]]'s lifebar before any spontaneous health changes occur).

==Conclusion==

[[Plum]]s and plum posts are programmed in a rather counter-intuitive way in ''[[Rayman 2]]''. This is excusable considering that they appear only once in the entire game. The anomalous nature of the relationship between [[plum]]s and their posts was covered up in a rather brutish manner, using an imperfect invisible wall. This was inexplicably removed from the [[Rayman Revolution|PS2 port]], which makes one wonder why this phenomenon took so many years to discover.

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 ==The Basic Setup==
-Just inside the entrance to [[Sanctuary of Stone and Fire|the level]], there is a secret room at the bottom of a fissure that can be accessed only by riding a [[plum]] on the [[lava]], down a narrow corridor. At the end of the corridor there is another [[plum]] tree on dry land, and a post in the middle of some hot lava. The idea is to get the [[plum]] from the tree, throw it onto the post, and use the resulting platform to hop up to a higher level. Up there, there is another [[plum]] growing, over a ledge looking out onto a very hot region with some more stone ledges, and pillars with posts sticking out of them. Here, the new [[plum]] should be thrown at one of the posts, from which it will fall. [[Rayman]] needs to stand under it to catch it and throw it to the next post, from which it will also fall. He needs to catch it again and then place it on horizontal ground. He can then jump on it and access a high corridor, at the end of which is a [[cage]] containing a [[Super Yellow Lum]].
+Just inside the entrance to [[Sanctuary of Stone and Fire|the level]], there is a secret room at the bottom of a fissure that can be accessed only by riding a [[plum]] on the lava, down a narrow corridor. At the end of the corridor there is another [[plum]] tree on dry land, and a post in the middle of some hot lava. The idea is to get the [[plum]] from the tree, throw it onto the post, and use the resulting platform to hop up to a higher level. Up there, there is another [[plum]] growing, over a ledge looking out onto a very hot region with some more stone ledges, and pillars with posts sticking out of them. Here, the new [[plum]] should be thrown at one of the posts, from which it will fall. [[Rayman]] needs to stand under it to catch it and throw it to the next post, from which it will also fall. He needs to catch it again and then place it on horizontal ground. He can then jump on it and access a high corridor, at the end of which is a [[cage]] containing a [[Super Yellow Lum]].
 Playing this game, one would intuitively think that whether the [[plum]] stays on the post, or falls after a few seconds, is a property of the posts themselves. Presumably this is the in-[[Glade of Dreams|universe]] physical explanation.
@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 ==First Indications of Something Unorthodox==
-Having played ''[[Rayman 2]]'' for many years, I have tried several times to change things slightly, by using the [[plum]] on which I ride in to form the platform with the first post, instead of taking a new one from the tree. After all, [[plum]]s are a precious natural resource, so why waste one? Anyway, attempts to do this ''always'' failed, suggesting that the issue wasn't lack of skill or bad luck on my part. Still, I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. Maybe all that bouncing on [[lava]] simply softened the [[plum]] up too much so the post could no longer pierce it in the desired manner.
+Having played ''[[Rayman 2]]'' for many years, I have tried several times to change things slightly, by using the [[plum]] on which I ride in to form the platform with the first post, instead of taking a new one from the tree. After all, [[plum]]s are a precious natural resource, so why waste one? Anyway, attempts to do this ''always'' failed, suggesting that the issue wasn't lack of skill or bad luck on my part. Still, I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. Maybe all that bouncing on lava simply softened the [[plum]] up too much so the post could no longer pierce it in the desired manner.
 This changed in May 2017 when, during a conversation with [[User:Ray502|Ray502]] in a [https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4651 forum game thread], I published [https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4651&p=1217110&hilit=posts#p1217147 a video] demonstrating the phenomenon. [[User:Droolie|Droolie]] suggested looking more closely at the matter.
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 # [[Plum]]s that stick to posts permanently, of which the first plum on the lower-level tree is the only specimen
 # [[Plum]]s that stick to posts for a few seconds, then quiver and fall, of which the second plum, up on the ledge, is the only specimen
-[[Ubisoft|The developers]] attempted to cover this up by putting an invisible wall between the ledge and the lower level, that blocks all plums. Nevertheless, the video clearly shows that there was a big enough window to get the "quivering" [[plum]] onto the supposedly stable post, provided one is willing to allow [[Rayman]] to die in the process. [[User:Adsolution|Adsolution's]] [[RayTwol]] editor also allows the entities to be moved so that the phenomenon can be [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=XZTXzJJY4w0 illustrated] without doing battle with the invisible wall.
+[[Ubisoft|The developers]] attempted to cover this up by putting an invisible wall between the ledge and the lower level, that blocks all plums. Nevertheless, the video clearly shows that there was a big enough window to get the "quivering" [[plum]] onto the supposedly stable post, provided one is willing to allow [[Rayman]] to die in the process. [[User:Adsolution|Adsolution's]] [https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=25013 RayTwol] editor also allows the entities to be moved so that the phenomenon can be [https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=XZTXzJJY4w0 illustrated] without doing battle with the invisible wall.
 [[User:Droolie|Droolie]] speculated about the relation, if any, between these "checkpoint" entities to which [[plum]]s bind, and the bases for the [[magic sphere]]s. This has not been investigated thoroughly, and it would be difficult to ascertain much information since there is obviously no level containing both plum posts and magic spheres.
@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 One year later, [[User:The Jonster|The Jonster]] decided to investigate this in the [[Rayman Revolution|PlayStation 2 port of the game]], which is known to fix some glitches, while introducing a plethora of new ones. It [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ht6r0NjS0 turns out] that the plums work exactly the same way, but the invisible wall to cover up the phenomenon was removed! This makes it even more strange that it took almost twenty years to discover these anomalies, but at least we know now!
-Note that this is somewhat reminiscent of the phenomenon of the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ExYL3NsK4 "regenerating"] [[barrel pirate]], investigated by [[User:Master|Master]]. While it is easy enough to detect in ''[[Rayman Revolution|Revolution]]'', it turns out that it occurs in the PC version too, but is covered up much better (in this case by hiding the [[barrel pirate]]'s lifebar before any spontaneous health changes occur).
+Note that this is somewhat reminiscent of the phenomenon of the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ExYL3NsK4 "regenerating"] [[Barrel Pirate]], investigated by [[User:Master|Master]]. While it is easy enough to detect in ''[[Rayman Revolution|Revolution]]'', it turns out that it occurs in the PC version too, but is covered up much better (in this case by hiding the [[Barrel Pirate]]'s lifebar before any spontaneous health changes occur).
 ==Conclusion==
 [[Plum]]s and plum posts are programmed in a rather counter-intuitive way in ''[[Rayman 2]]''. This is excusable considering that they appear only once in the entire game. The anomalous nature of the relationship between [[plum]]s and their posts was covered up in a rather brutish manner, using an imperfect invisible wall. This was inexplicably removed from the [[Rayman Revolution|PS2 port]], which makes one wonder why this phenomenon took so many years to discover.