Rayman 3 scores

DTUCC said:

what i deduct from you're last sentece though is that you're contemplating not to reveal your findings if you aren't satisfied with our participation in the forums? that's the general feeling i'm getting from your message. i'll be more than happy to be proven wrong on that one though.

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Well, the bile from sfn is counterproductive. I think it's been cool that Cut has participated in recent developments in R3. If you and MG showed the same spirit we could possibly get something going. Why not try it out and see where it will lead?

sfn42 said:

But as long as MandM is allowed to stay in the HoF with only a code and a screenshot, then Mirage has to be allowed as well.

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My point exactly. Guess I just forgot to mention that.

Mirage said:

i dont think mandm is trustworthy too maz. why should i agree to your idea? you dont know me, i dont know you. we are equal.

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It was just a suggestion, and I won't tell you to agree. And sorry if my words came out insulting to you, it's just that such a huge improvement is a lot to take in, and I hope you can understand that.

Either way, I give up now. At this point, it seems like it'll just be both sides being stubborn (whether rightfully so or not, I don't care), and appearently, you guys have personal issues with each other which need to be fixed as well. I gave my best not only to be an objective as possible party, but also to actually come up with a solution for our problems (and seriously, how did Mirage entering his Score lead to this kind of discussion again), but appearently I'm hitting on deaf ears. Some don't care, some won't compromise, and just a few regularly post here with the objective of discussing the topic's designated theme, and I'm slowly but surely growing tired of all this. Don't you guys as well?

I'll gladly join the talk again once you guys finally got over it. I hope that this will, once again, one day be a topic where you can actually discuss Rayman 3 Scoring. That being said, I WILL keep you updated on any future findings. Good luck until then!

MandM81 said:

Why not try it out and see where it will lead?

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i literally explained that in the same post you quoted.

once again, it's not that i'm not willing to participate, i just have other interests than playing r3 right now. i've been enjoying the recent development too though, on a side note.

maz, you might have noticed i reached the same point you have reached now a few weeks ago. so yeah, i fully understand your sentiments. i hope it won't make you move on from the game as well, you're a good addition to the scoring community.

Everything I revealed belongs to at least 75% to sfn, DTUCC and Mountain Goat. There is a reason why we are 4 guys, just because I'm the only one who felt like posting in here it doesn't mean that the others don't contribute anything.

Maz said:

sfn42 said:

But as long as MandM is allowed to stay in the HoF with only a code and a screenshot, then Mirage has to be allowed as well.

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My point exactly. Guess I just forgot to mention that.

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I guess I misunderstood you, then.

Maz said:

Mirage said:

i dont think mandm is trustworthy too maz. why should i agree to your idea? you dont know me, i dont know you. we are equal.

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Either way, I give up now. At this point, it seems like it'll just be both sides being stubborn (whether rightfully so or not, I don't care), and appearently, you guys have personal issues with each other which need to be fixed as well. I gave my best not only to be an objective as possible party, but also to actually come up with a solution for our problems (and seriously, how did Mirage entering his Score lead to this kind of discussion again), but appearently I'm hitting on deaf ears. Some don't care, some won't compromise, and just a few regularly post here with the objective of discussing the topic's designated theme, and I'm slowly but surely growing tired of all this. Don't you guys as well?

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You may not believe it, but I'm not happy about this as well. I am not stopping, though, because I have experienced a scoring community with secrecy being accepted and it just sucked. In my opinion, it was worse than what we have now and if it reverts to that, we can just bury the whole community. Honestly, all it would take to resolve this, is for MandM to reveal what he improved now and for all players to agree not to keep anything secret. I don't care about the personal side of things. Whether MandM thinks I am a disgusting pile of shit or whether I think he is an arrogant ass, doesn't matter to the future of the scoring community, but the secrecy does.

maz said:

It was just a suggestion, and I won't tell you to agree. And sorry if my words came out insulting to you, it's just that such a huge improvement is a lot to take in, and I hope you can understand that.

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no not insulting. im not stupid and i understand what you peoples problem is. i said that my treatment is unfair. but something else is unfair.
its unfair how mandm prenteds to be somebody better than others because he can secrets and other not. and its unfair too that the other guys (cut and sfn esp) use my score to violently make mandm give his secrets away. the problem itself is unfair and the method how other guys wnat to solve it is unfair too. now i come with a high score and all this unfairness hits hard. mandm is not somebody better, no way. but the others (i just call you the others) also arent. to be an asshole to demonstrate that somebody else is an asshole is funny for first minutes but not when it goes on and on. as far as i understand mandm will not show us anything (yeah 1st april 2016 my ass) and the others wont leave him alone until he dos. so both sides behave terribel.
you guys are online competition in a nutshell. this thread is liek a wasp nest and i fell attitudes spread all over the internet and that is terrible. fucking terrubel. mandm is an asshole and so he causes others to be an asshole. that causes mandm to be an asshole again. thats not what is wokring. you need to stop. you are so little people, you can solve your porblems. in dota were millions of fucktards and everybody hates everybody, that will be like this forever. not here. you can talk, in dota we cant.
maz said pesonal problems. of course you have personal problems. id ont understnad why exactly but they exist. i can read that. dont to that too.
i said that i read in this thread snice march 2014 and i know that you had many problems because of this glitch. but the others dont want to be fucktards anymore, they stopped with evreything. the other did something, he just is here, and can do whatever the fuck he wants. the other always hear "oh you are so bad because you did that and you did that" but he is always good. they got away from the hall of fame. THEY ARE NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME. WHAT BIGGER COMPROMISE CAN THERE BE IN A COMPETITION? WHAT THE FUCK. they come and bring ideas and you say "no you no hall of fame because you guys are bad and im great". the others are the evil ones but mand is god of rayman? thats not the truth. the other said "okay what we did was shit and we not do this anymore. you can have the competition its yours. here, we go away from hall of fame". and mandm "oh you guys are so bad you cant tell me waht to do. you are evil im not. look at me im the super friendly guy". thats hate. being a backstabber is hate. the worst hate. hate is what makes the internet bad. and i feel like i have to punish people who bring hate as long as i can. because in the games i usually play i cant. but here i have a chance. the overs gave all they have. and they want something that is less worh. they gave mandm the heart of competition, the leaderboard. and all they want is a little information. mandm you should be ashamed.

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Mirage said:

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sad cos true

Mirage provided what he has to provide and that's it. He explained beautiful how I gave away my 2nd rank in the Hall of Fame so it's not my problem anymore. I'll let the people who actually care deal with him.
Moving on to the game. FC4 is waiting.

After doing some thinking and since my so-called secret might unintentionally get in the way of cooperating with players I normally work closely with, and since the TSF guys graciously have removed their IPG scores from the Ho, I propose the following:

1. No IPG scores to be entered in the HoF, now or in the future. This has been implemented.
2. The Mirage case shall be investigated and his score fully validated for the use of IPG, MG’s discovery etc.
3. All players, including me, will post screenshots when asked.
4. The tone on the forum shall be civil and courteous.

In short, I will post the desired screenshots as soon as the Mirage case is closed.

Yeah, these are good points. I would like to add one thing: level scores. (I'm not 100% sure if your screenshot-point actually means exactly this)
You said that you want to wait until 1st April 2016 as a reaction to our standards, but not posting level scores at all is something new which doesn't have anything to do with us. There was one thing we did not keep secret, our level scores. Maybe that DTUCC refused to post his scores first but he did after like 1 week and if you really want to go with our standards, the one week for you is over.

I would go even further: posting the level scores is necessary to validate a HoF-score. Which would put the ball also into Mirage's corner.

Cut said:

Mirage

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Such a fitting name.

On that note, could someone tell me what I've got to do to post a screenshot? Would I have to upload it somewhere, and then link it, or can I just use [.img] (without the dot obviously) and add it from my memory card?

[.img] only works with URLs as far as i know, so yes you would have to upload it. An Attachment would also work.

The easiest way would indeed be to compress the screenshot to under 128 KiB (shouldn't be too hard with JPEG) and upload it as an attachment to your post.

MandM81 said:

After doing some thinking and since my so-called secret might unintentionally get in the way of cooperating with players I normally work closely with, and since the TSF guys graciously have removed their IPG scores from the Ho, I propose the following:

1. No IPG scores to be entered in the HoF, now or in the future. This has been implemented.
2. The Mirage case shall be investigated and his score fully validated for the use of IPG, MG’s discovery etc.
3. All players, including me, will post screenshots when asked.
4. The tone on the forum shall be civil and courteous.

In short, I will post the desired screenshots as soon as the Mirage case is closed.

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5. All players, when asked, will reveal the combos/glitches/techniques they used to improve their scores, either in a detailed description or a video. Otherwise, their score will be removed from the HoF.

That is the one thing I am insisting on and I am not agreeing to anything until this condition is met.

I agree with point five especially. It isn't as if secrecy is the only thing allowing someone to properly hold credit, which is the only legitimate reason I can fathom for secrecy - credit will go where credit is due.

But who does it apply to? Surely by chance some casual player who's never read this thread could stumble upon a previously unknown but superior combo, even if their score is much lower in general.

Which is what sort of disturbs me. If I were to go play Rayman 3 and by happenstance manage to pull off some awesome combo I didn't even realise I used, how will I know to remember exactly what I did? I wouldn't remember every flippin' gem I collected in what order!

Adsolution said:

But who does it apply to? Surely by chance some casual player could by chance who's never read this thread could stumble upon a previously unknown but superior combo, even if their score is much lower in general.

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I understand the thought itself but it's something unavoidable. People have to come here. No plaintiff, no judge.

Shrooblord said:

Which is what sort of disturbs me. If I were to go play Rayman 3 and by happenstance manage to pull off some awesome combo I didn't even realise I used, how will I know to remember exactly what I did? I wouldn't remember every flippin' gem I collected in what order!

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It's not necessary to remember the exact order of gems in a combo for example. You always will remember what you roughly did and people with more knowledge and experience will be able to reconstruct the combo with given information in 99.9% of all cases. This rule would become interesting if a player uses some kind of special technique or a glitch systematicly to improve his score, that doesn't happen by random.

One example: I once got the Matuvu in Razoff's Mansion for 250 in combo as I stood right next to the gem, zoomed on the Matuvu and jumped right at the exact moment when I go the Matuvu (info: jumping slightly enlarges Rayman's hitbox) and for some weird reason, the game counted the gem before the Matuvu. Since then, I never have been able to reproduce this and I never could utilize this for scoring so at some point I forgot about it. I just rembered when I had to think about an example. This is not what we're talking about, that's rather an oddity.

@Adsolution: I would say that scenario is very, very unlikely, with how the game is maximized, especially as it would have to be combo that affects the total score in a level and not just a score after a specific part for anyone to even notice, so it is unlikely to happen in all the levels with a 100k-limit and FC and LS, the only levels with scores below 100k, have very few combos in total. If what you said, did indeed happen and someone noticed something, the "when asked"-part of my previous post comes into play. So, any player who is asked about how they achieved a specific score, would then have to describe or show the combos they improved. Cut, Maz and 1234 (and maybe MandM, don't know how involved he has been in that) have started to put together a document which shows all the known combos and known possible scores. When it's finished, it should be a great help in enforcing any rules about secrecy and also provide a resource for new players to look into, if they think they have found something new.

Ultimately, my hope is that, when a new player sees that people are open about combos, that there is no secrecy, they will be more inclined to share their discoveries without being asked.

Sure, I'd agree with someone using systematic glitches explaining how they're exploiting the game. I guess it all boils down to how serious we take ourselves here and when a score stops being valid because it was obtained with 'too many glitches'.