Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

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incognito
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by incognito »

Adsolution wrote:Would it be at all productive to tell your parents about it? I'm not sure what they'd even be able to do - intervening, like you said, could end up causing more trouble. In most cases, I think it's reasonable to assume his type won't get aggressive. They're pussies who back off the moment a threat arises; they just exploit naïvety, and I think they often mistake shyness for it. Either that or they think their victim is shy enough to not do anything about it, and they know that you know they're getting what they want with zero repercussions.

I'm not sure how you assert yourself in person in general, but if I were in your shoes, I would probably move aggressively and with confidence (but not agitatedly - don't pretend he doesn't exist, that's a sign of weakness). If he sees himself as some alpha male and you don't want to be taken advantage of, you need to be that 'alpha male'. Make eye contact. Make him feel like he's being watched - he's the one on your turf after all. Unclear psychological warfare is so effective because it instills a sense of unknowing, and the last thing a creeper would ever attempt is venturing into unknown territory.
Im not okay with you, he might feel exited.

My opinion is to clear every points once and for all.

I personally do that and every one seems to be afraid of me, (sunglasses cap knives and gloves are also playing a role in that )

but my solution is to corner him, (a kitchen meat knife might help) and tell him that if he touch you again, your skin will be the last thing his hand will feel.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Adsolution »

I think your solution is sloppy and lacking in forethought.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Harpic fraîcheur »

incognito seems to exaggerate a little bit...
Jewish Candy
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Jewish Candy »

Believe me, inco, my gut reaction would be the same as yours. But you and I both know how badly that would turn out in the real world :mrgreen:
Adsolution wrote:I'm not sure how you assert yourself in person in general, but if I were in your shoes, I would probably move aggressively and with confidence (but not agitatedly - don't pretend he doesn't exist, that's a sign of weakness). If he sees himself as some alpha male and you don't want to be taken advantage of, you need to be that 'alpha male'. Make eye contact. Make him feel like he's being watched - he's the one on your turf after all. Unclear psychological warfare is so effective because it instills a sense of unknowing, and the last thing a creeper would ever attempt is venturing into unknown territory.

If he's crazy and things turn a little more physical, well, I think the answer is a lot more clear-cut.

Having people touch you like that is horrible and dehumanising, and almost solely due to what the offender is getting out of it. The best thing you can do is make the touching lose its meaning, even if it means turning that one successful memory he has that he takes pride in of placing his hands on your waist into a one that he wishes he could forget.
I tend to be quite assertive and definite with my boundaries, just out of instinct - I immediately removed his hands, for example. In public I am dangerously unafraid to defend myself, verbally or physically, or be direct about my displeasure (luckily this has never come back to bite me). But laws are different on private property, and tbh he's a bit too self-centred to understand signals. He's as chauvinistic as you'd expect a builder to be. If I could leave the house at any point in the day I'd feel more comfortable, but as it is I'm pretty much stuck. Also, he's a big man... I think subconsciously I still believe it's better to stay quiet and avoid provoking him further. So I have to remind myself to apply the kind of advice I'd offer someone else if they were in my situation, which would be essentially the same as yours.

I think what I will do is ensure that he doesn't have a key on him next week, and the next time he makes any comment about me, any comment at all, I will confront him vocally. Like you said, eye contact works a charm. He has to know this is unacceptable.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Rayfist »

Ad, you could probably donate your body to science when you pass away and perhaps have them reserve your body into a machine maybe. Science is working to do stuff like that, right? Anyways... the concept of living forever, it never struck me. I legitimately have no clue whether it's a good thing or bad, all I can think is what if you got bored of life one day? You've just seen everything one day, you've visited every country, ate every food, played every videogame, watched every movie, now what? I guess there's watching technology grow further but hm. One thing I will say though is that 100 years.... seems a little short to me. I would like if we could at least live up to a good 500 years, just hearing 100 scares me a bit. (Don't even try to imply I'm 'inexperienced' or 'immature' because I don't know how to feel about this.) While I am neutral to this, I don't fully agree with your stance of "Anyone who disagrees is this."
Adsolution wrote:accepting inevitable death as a fact is like giving a big 'fuck you' to any of our offspring who won't be able to live forever alongside their peers for whatever reason. Talk about not wishing for something better.
Uh... so what the fuck am I supposed to do? Say, no to the face of death? Do I wish for a better long lasting world? Or even eternity? Of course. But there's legitimately nothing we can do right now knowing this in this generation. I've learned to cope with that and just make the fullest of the short life I have. We'll of course be reminded of doomsday, but I don't know what else you want me to say, we can yell at it all we want. Until one person actually develops something in order to combat this if possible, there's nothing we can do currently most likely.

Yes death is scary, and it is something to fear, but honestly? I'd rather spend the next 70-80 years not thinking about something so dreadful and be positive.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Adsolution »

Rayfist wrote:what if you got bored of life one day? You've just seen everything one day, you've visited every country, ate every food, played every videogame, watched every movie, now what? I guess there's watching technology grow further but hm.
Aye, and being a part of it.
Rayfist wrote:While I am neutral to this, I don't fully agree with your stance of "Anyone who disagrees is this."
I didn't say "anyone who disagrees with this", I'm sorry if it came off that way. These are my own thoughts entirely, and I presented the "it's like giving a big 'fuck you'" was one way of looking at it. I'm not saying that it's the only way.


Jewish Candy wrote:I tend to be quite assertive and definite with my boundaries, just out of instinct - I immediately removed his hands, for example. In public I am dangerously unafraid to defend myself, verbally or physically, or be direct about my displeasure (luckily this has never come back to bite me).
Alright, I like that. :mrgreen:
Jewish Candy wrote:But laws are different on private property
Private property is more of a wilderness than the public is. Things aren't monitored, and there's no one to hear you scream.
Jewish Candy wrote:I think what I will do is ensure that he doesn't have a key on him next week
My mother's the owner of a construction company, and she would never allow a builder to have a key on them in the first place. That's just asking for trouble. The only time someone wouldn't have to be around (to let them in) is if they're only working outside. So yes, ensure that he doesn't have a key on him next week!
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Keane »

I feel like it's not so much time dragging people down but more our limits. You have the most minimal freedom until you're about 18-19 years old, and then you're welcomed to a society that either discourages or praises you for refusing to obey the preset path carved out for you, and that terrifies me. So often we're just killing time, waiting for the next significant moment. If I were to die after 85 years of living and spend my time successfully, I'd almost welcome it, I don't want life to turn into a blur either, but for me being able to "live successfully" is to have done it in all in a way that leaves me satisfied.. Being 45 years old, waking up and feeling your midlife crisis creeping up is one of the most horrible things I could imagine: the ability to question whether the first half of your life was even really worth the effort.

I think when Ad mentions wanting to be part of how technology advances, it's a kind of wanting that applies to everything. If I'm to end up wasting 30 years of my life working a semi-interesting job that eats away all my time, only to waste the time I do have on drinking away the reality of it, then life could be 500 years long and I wouldn't feel a slight bit better about it. It's why I dislike people getting all "well at least be glad you're born into a first world democratic society" when that's complete bullshit. It's more or less saying that I should be thankful for being able to live my life with some dignity, like an abused kid that's supposed to appreciate their parents because they give them a place to stay.

And well, that's why time scares me, because there's no telling what direction I'm heading into, or when the plug gets pulled. If, say, my whole family gets into a car crash next week, the only people who would remember me even slightly well are my grandparents. In other words, give it 15-20 years and I'd be down to a vague memory of distant family, and that's just disgusting. But on the brighter side of things, it could also not happen and I could achieve everything I hope to, and with that in mind, I want to stick around, because it'd wrong to act like the unpredictability of life can't also bring anything positive.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Rayfist »

Adsolution wrote:I'm sorry if it came off that way.
It's okay. I think more of what I'm trying to say is the whole "If you think that, you're essentially saying this" is what I mean to say.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by spiraldoor »

Adsolution wrote:I believe one of humanity's greatest tragic heroes would be someone who threw away all their other passions and aspirations in favour of trying to find the cure for aging, knowing that it's unlikely they'll even find it themselves, but that they'll have pushed us one step closer so we can prevent a generation sooner from dying.
You should watch The Fountain. It's largely about this and I think it's the most beautiful film I've ever seen.

People are raised to believe death is completely unavoidable. A popular way to remain sane in the face of this is to rationalise it, to tell yourself that it's OK because you'll go to heaven, or it's OK because eternal life would be boring/overpopulated/whatever. Those problems are real, and future humanity will have to solve them. We shouldn't just roll over and fucking doom all life to end just because we can't immediately think of solutions to problems that we won't have to face for centuries. Religion and anti-life-extension (anti-transhumanism? neo-luddism?) arise from the same set of psychological anxieties, the same social conditioning.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by saerleiya »

Nope.

Things are not as enjoyable as they should be if you have the ability of repeating them endlessly.

Death being a fatality is not mandatory. This is what some people think. You can think of death as something that will guarantee that things are worth the time you invest in them, as your time is not infinite.

What is the point of being immortal? You can do whatever you want. Talent doesn't matter anymore, you have as much time as you want to perfect your skills in any kind of thing you are trying to do. No matter how many things there is to learn or to discover down there, it DOESN'T matter. And that is annoying.

Yes, right now we are able to push the limits of life and live longer. But for what? Most old people are simply helped to live a bit more while their brain already decayed enough so they don't enjoy life as much as before.

Whether it be through quick, fast bursts of bliss or long, hard-earned satisfaction, I don't think the time that is granted us should be increased over and over. You always want more, but sometimes, it's also great to be satisfied with what you have, even if some might consider it pointless.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Keane »

But on the other hand, if you can't actually die via disease or old age, then that's basically a confirmation that at some point you'll likely die either through a fatal accident, suicide or murder. Hm.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by spiraldoor »

saerleiya wrote:Whether it be through quick, fast bursts of bliss or long, hard-earned satisfaction, I don't think the time that is granted us should be increased over and over. You always want more, but sometimes, it's also great to be satisfied with what you have, even if some might consider it pointless.
If you want to die, fine. I think your reasons are breathtakingly illogical, but fine. It's your life, and you can achieve as little as you want with it. But you absolutely do not get to make that decision for anyone else, and by suggesting that life extension technologies should not be pursued to their limits, that is exactly what you are doing.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Jewish Candy »

In theory I support transhumanism. But as things stand, I cannot. Power (and with it access to technology) is already assymetrical to an insane degree in this world, and until we acheive full equity the idea of an immortal, optimised transhuman elite terrifies me to my core.

While I doubt that I would be happy to undergo such a procedure I would never want to deny it to anyone - hence my total opposition, as under existing structures it would be denied to the majority of the human population, or at best delayed to the point where resistance is impossible. Existing imbalances are hurdles enough, we don't need them excacerbated and 'justified' any further.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by spiraldoor »

Potential inequality is a problem, sure, but it's not a reason to place a blanket ban on progress. By that logic we wouldn't have computers or motorcars. Many radical new technologies are enormously expensive at first. The sooner they're developed and released, the sooner the lower classes will be able to afford them. You're also overlooking the potential for people with enhanced capabilities to use them to achieve forms of social progress.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Jewish Candy »

I'm not suggesting we ban or otherwise halt progress in the field - how would we do that anyway? - but that we move urgently and with conviction towards revolution so that the technology, when it arrives, will not be a tool in the hands of the few. Hand-me-down technology is just that, and will never rival the most cutting-edge tech that would be available to those who benefit under the system. It simply reflects inequality rather than addresses it. Nor would I trust in private charity, as it won't be guaranteed and alone rarely works (heck, could argue that it cannot work) to redress the balance that makes that self-same charity possible in the first place. Sure, a Prometheus is a nice idea, but why even get to the stage where such paternalistic action is necessary? Besides, we all know what his fellow immortals did to him...

It's a false hope though, isn't it. This is pretty much inevitable now.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Keane »

Allowing such a thing to be purchasable to the wealthiest members of society would be pretty fucking horrid. Imagine giving this level of power to people like the Koch brothers, who are already making a pretty decent effort at being the most disgusting people around in their current lifespan. Hell, take them as an example: They've basically dedicated their fortune to attempting to recreate the massive gap between the wealthiest class and everyone else, and even now continue to spend their final few years trying to bribe their way into political power. If you're gonna make this thing that can be purchased, it will inevitably fall into the hands of people like them and quite more folks you really wouldn't want around any longer than they have to.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by spiraldoor »

Jewish Candy wrote:I'm not suggesting we ban or otherwise halt progress in the field - how would we do that anyway? - but that we move urgently and with conviction towards revolution so that the technology, when it arrives, will not be a tool in the hands of the few. Hand-me-down technology is just that, and will never rival the most cutting-edge tech that would be available to those who benefit under the system. It simply reflects inequality rather than addresses it. Nor would I trust in private charity, as it won't be guaranteed and alone rarely works (heck, could argue that it cannot work) to redress the balance that makes that self-same charity possible in the first place. Sure, a Prometheus is a nice idea, but why even get to the stage where such paternalistic action is necessary? Besides, we all know what his fellow immortals did to him...

It's a false hope though, isn't it. This is pretty much inevitable now.
I don't know if a post-revolution civilisation would be able to maintain the same accelerating rate of technological progress we enjoy now. Genuinely no idea. Of course some people will more/earlier access to better/more advanced technologies, but that's not really any different from the way we live now. The wealthy already have longer lifespans, better healthcare (in certain places at least), and cooler gadgets. Would there really be a negative effect on the working classes if, for instance, a small elite became immune to disease, or stopped ageing? I'm not sure. But I believe completely that development and progress in this direction, however uneven and flawed it might be, is crucial for the future (and maybe even the present) of humanity.
Keane wrote:Allowing such a thing to be purchasable to the wealthiest members of society would be pretty fucking horrid. Imagine giving this level of power to people like the Koch brothers, who are already making a pretty decent effort at being the most disgusting people around in their current lifespan. Hell, take them as an example: They've basically dedicated their fortune to attempting to recreate the massive gap between the wealthiest class and everyone else, and even now continue to spend their final few years trying to bribe their way into political power. If you're gonna make this thing that can be purchased, it will inevitably fall into the hands of people like them and quite more folks you really wouldn't want around any longer than they have to.
Do you hate them enough to condemn every man, woman and child who will ever be born into this world to absolutely certain death just to make sure they don't live longer than you want them to? Throwing the baby out with the bathwater much?
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Jewish Candy »

The worst thing for me is that, even if the technology were free, structures are such that it still wouldn't be freely available to all. Wealth is just one form of access. The Koch Brothers are vile and disturbingly influential, but they themselves are still products of a system that replicates itself even through well-intentioned individuals.
Total structural reform so we can escape our fleshy meatbodies if we're down with that shit :teuf:
spiraldoor wrote:I don't know if a post-revolution civilisation would be able to maintain the same accelerating rate of technological progress we enjoy now. Genuinely no idea. Of course some people will more/earlier access to better/more advanced technologies, but that's not really any different from the way we live now. The wealthy already have longer lifespans, better healthcare (in certain places at least), and cooler gadgets. Would there really be a negative effect on the working classes if, for instance, a small elite became immune to disease, or stopped ageing? I'm not sure. But I believe completely that development and progress in this direction, however uneven and flawed it might be, is crucial for the future (and maybe even the present) of humanity.
I couldn't fail to disagree with you more :mrgreen: Obviously my opposition to Western capitalist transhumanism stems from opposition to Western capitalism in the present day, so I suppose that's a discussion for anothing time, ideally a time when I'm not tipsy so I don't use phrases like "Western capitalism".
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by Keane »

spiraldoor wrote:
Keane wrote:Allowing such a thing to be purchasable to the wealthiest members of society would be pretty fucking horrid. Imagine giving this level of power to people like the Koch brothers, who are already making a pretty decent effort at being the most disgusting people around in their current lifespan. Hell, take them as an example: They've basically dedicated their fortune to attempting to recreate the massive gap between the wealthiest class and everyone else, and even now continue to spend their final few years trying to bribe their way into political power. If you're gonna make this thing that can be purchased, it will inevitably fall into the hands of people like them and quite more folks you really wouldn't want around any longer than they have to.
Do you hate them enough to condemn every man, woman and child who will ever be born into this world to absolutely certain death just to make sure they don't live longer than you want them to? Throwing the baby out with the bathwater much?
I absolutely agree on your view, I just don't deem it realistic. The Koch brothers are an example of many, and we know perfectly well what how much they influence. Naomi Klein has made a career out of documenting the shitfest the wealthiest members of society are putting out, and the more I hear about these people the more I'm against the idea of these people gaining anymore privileges than they already do, especially when their current privileges are already about as limitless as they could get with current science and technology. The Koch brothers are such a good example of that because, well, look at Keystone XL:

- they invented it
- obviously knew anyone with basic reasoning would detest it, so they get out their bribed team to "support" it by throwing around a bunch of illogical arguments and completely wrong claims
- basically didn't happen because obama didn't pass it, so let's think about what someone like bush would have done
- koch bros invest 800 million usd in current elections to try and get the next winning candidate on their side.

That right there, is an insane level of power no two people should hold, and again, it's just an example of so many things like this. Looking at a place like Haiti and the immense suffering those people are going through, and then finding out that these people aren't receiving the help they could more than easily have had and were promised because people decided to instead abuse an entire country for their gain, no, I have no trust in anything good coming out of giving them them even more power. TL;DR, for something like extended life to work that way, there'd first need to be a history proving that these people have ever made an effort to further society in that way, rather than it only happening because they couldn't prevent it.
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Re: Something Bothering you?/Daily Doldrums

Post by spiraldoor »

In what way would a world where toxic people never die be worse for the general population than a world where they die simply to be replaced by other toxic people (ie, the one we live in now)?
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