Rayman 3 scores

[MandM81]

Yeah, I didn't expect a potential improvement of the Hoodflyer maximum could be achieved. However, there are some heavy combos in part 1, in particular the Piggybank - Hoodstormer Combo. It's even harder to connect these Piggybanks with a Hoodstormer than connecting the two rooms in the Hoodlum Camp Combo in CF part 2.

As for the Lums from the second Lavomatrix, yeah, that can be done. The success rate is low, which is why it's perfect it's the first combo.

First thing I need to do in January will be to make a complete points walkthrough of TOTL parts 1 and 2, with updated combos, to see what can be done. Right now I can't really see what the potential maximum for console players will be. Maybe I'll put this project before FC.

Edit: Ok, with a conservative score of 75k after part 1, using my Lavomatrix Combo and your Green Gem Combo as well as your Hoodstormer Combo I land on 103.150 points before the combo points from the final combo are added. That is, I can lose 3.000+ points along the way. A score of 108.189 points + points from the Lums Glitch in the Hoodstormer Combo should thus be possible, if the Hoodstormer Combo is the final combo. The score could be higher if the last two combos could be rearranged properly.

[1234]

Cool project Maz and MandM! Good to know that we can expect a new maximum in this level.

I'd yet have to bring myself up-to-date to be able to take part in the project, so by now I have only one question: In part 2, why can't we actually take the items in the other rooms and then return to the first room? I know that you can't simply go back, but finding a SJ in one of these rooms shouldn't be such a great problem, or is it actually? Of course it wouldn't be a really creative way to get some extra points, but in case it's possible, we could still take advantage of it.

P.S.S.: Something else I want to bring to your attention. I don't know what triggers this, but appearently the Green Gem doesn't spawn if you pull the Lever AFTER finishing off all the Hoodstormers. Meaning you can't include the Hoodblaster in any of the major Combos. We should keep this in mind because that means there's still potential for quite a few Points in TOTL2, namely if we find a way to avoid this Glitch.

I've just made a few attempts, and it seems like the green gem won't come out together with the statue if you kill more than five hoodstomers and then pull the lever. So I guess that the green gem will be "disabled" as soon as the last hoodstormer spawns, but of course I can't guarantee that.

By the way, did anyone ever succeed in getting all four Matavus in the same combo in part 3?

Coincidentally, just a few days ago, I found an easier way to get the 3rd and 4th matuvu than the current one. It still takes some practice, but I think it's not too bad. I've made a video of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGzR4S-nWI

[MandM81]

Cool project Maz and MandM! Good to know that we can expect a new maximum in this level.

Yeah, there's a certain potential there. I hope further investigations will prove successful in such a way that all platforms will be able to reach a new maximum. The current status seems to benefit console players unreasonably. The goal must be finding enough points on all platforms to make the Green Gem Combo the final combo, that is we need to find points in the interval 81,5k - 95,5k before the final combo.

I'd yet have to bring myself up-to-date to be able to take part in the project, so by now I have only one question: In part 2, why can't we actually take the items in the other rooms and then return to the first room? I know that you can't simply go back, but finding a SJ in one of these rooms shouldn't be such a great problem, or is it actually? Of course it wouldn't be a really creative way to get some extra points, but in case it's possible, we could still take advantage of it.

I seem to remember that when the entrance to the Tower with the Yellow Gems and a sole Elite Monger is closed, it's not returning to the first room that's the problem. I guess a potential SJ could do it. The problem is leaving the first room again and thus finishing the part. I wonder if that problem can be solved?

Coincidentally, just a few days ago, I found an easier way to get the 3rd and 4th matuvu than the current one. It still takes some practice, but I think it's not too bad. I've made a video of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGzR4S-nWI

Wow, well played

The last Matuvu seems playable, but it also looks like months of practise to load that into your muscle memory.

With all your improvements in FC, what is your current maximum score in this level?

[Maz]

Good job on succeeding in the 4-Matuvu-Combo, that attempt looks clean!

I think I might have to try this in the future... it still doesn't look easy, but at least it should be more managable than the previous version. Thanks for sharing that!

The thing with TOTL2 is that, as soon as you touch anything, the door leading back to the first area closes for good. Problem number one is that you can't return to the first area without either an SJ or an IPG, like MandM said.
The second problem was brought to my attention by Cut and the others: Even WITH the IPG, it's almost impossible to get out of the first area again. You obviously can't leave through the door because it's closed, and the ceiling is all solid, meaning you can't even use an infinite Throttle Copter to exit through the top. The only reason the IPG was any useful in this Part is because a way was found to clip out of bounds. Obviously we can't use that without an IPG, so we're locked out of any Points that might come from later areas in this level.

And sure, it would be nice if we could get a new maximum for PC-Players, too. I still have an idea left to test that would win quite a few Points, but IF that even worked it would be incredibly hard, so I'm not too optimistic about it. Of course it sucks that console players can benefit that much from the Lum-Glitch, but that's the name of the game sometimes.

[1234]

Thank you!
You're right, the matuvu combo still isn't easy at all, but with some practice the success rate of the combo will actually become quite reasonable. Only getting the 3rd matuvu will still require some luck, but in my opinion succeeding in this combo is probably easier than succeeding in the old 3 matuvu combo and the last matuvu combo together.

With all your improvements in FC, what is your current maximum score in this level?

I guess you're asking about the theoretical maximum in FC? (My personal score in FC didn't change yet, it's still 50200)
According to Maz' solution, together with the latest version of the dwarf combo, the maximum in FC without glitches is 53560 points. With Lance' version of the matuvu combo in part 2 (include all 3 gems on the trampolines in the combo), the maximum is 53650 points.
With glitches you can make the following improvements:
In part 3, you can equip the vortex, perform a SJ and get all 5 piggybanks and the yellow gems in combo (+430 points). Furthermore you can get some more points in the fairy hole combo (by starting the combo with the vortex from the last room) (+110 points) and in the tribelle combo (thanks to a SJ, which allows you get the vortex without making the stone squish the crab) (+490 points).
With these improvements the maximum in FC with glitches is 54680 points. However there are still some ideas for the fairy room and the tribelle room in part 4, so this might change soon.

Also thanks for the answers regarding TOTL 2! I completely forgot that you'd have to exit the first room a second time. The fact that the ceiling is solid, even adds to the problem. But, actually, sometimes it's still possible to clip through such ceilings. For example in LOTLD2 I found two SJs which allow you to pass the actually solid ceilings in the balloon room and the grim keeper room, so I think there's still some hope.

[MandM81]

In part 3, you can equip the vortex, perform a SJ and get all 5 piggybanks and the yellow gems in combo (+430 points). Furthermore you can get some more points in the fairy hole combo (by starting the combo with the vortex from the last room) (+110 points) and in the tribelle combo (thanks to a SJ, which allows you get the vortex without making the stone squish the crab) (+490 points).
With these improvements the maximum in FC with glitches is 54680 points. However there are still some ideas for the fairy room and the tribelle room in part 4, so this might change soon. ?

Thanks, that's exactly what I meant. It's cool it's still a work in progress.

Also thanks for the answers regarding TOTL 2! I completely forgot that you'd have to exit the first room a second time. The fact that the ceiling is solid, even adds to the problem. But, actually, sometimes it's still possible to clip through such ceilings. For example in LOTLD2 I found two SJs which allow you to pass the actually solid ceilings in the balloon room and the grim keeper room, so I think there's still some hope.

Well, if we could include points after the big room it would certainly level out the differences between the platforms in this level. As far as I recall there are somewhere around 11k - 13k points to be picked up depending on what we can do with the Elite Monger. I'd say it should be a priority to try to find a way to clip through the walls or the ceiling.

[NyaNyaLily]

Say, how do you get high enough to jump on top of the meadowscrews in the second part of the TBOM? I'm playing the PS2 version and I just can't manage to pull it off.

[Ray502]

Say, how do you get high enough to jump on top of the meadowscrews in the second part of the TBOM? I'm playing the PS2 version and I just can't manage to pull it off.

Get a running start and jump at the tip of the little bridge, to where you can get just enough height to where you then activate the helicopter at the right time on the right side of the mushroom. I was able to get it several times on the PS2.

[NyaNyaLily]

Say, how do you get high enough to jump on top of the meadowscrews in the second part of the TBOM? I'm playing the PS2 version and I just can't manage to pull it off.

Get a running start and jump at the tip of the little bridge, to where you can get just enough height to where you then activate the helicopter at the right time on the right side of the mushroom. I was able to get it several times on the PS2.

Thanks, I got the hang of it now. (after a lot of restarts because this combo is hard)

[MandM81]

After a year long break it's quite fun to play R3 again.

I looked into TOTL part 2 to see if it would be possible to return to the first room and later exit the first room again. Well, the first part is easy by means of this SJ. The second part I'm still looking into, but I'm not overly optimistic.

[MandM81]

Sorry for the double post. I haven’t so far been able to exit the first room when the door to the Tower is closed. That made me think of an alternative strategy, namely avoiding the door closing in the first place. This can be achieved with an SJ like this one. For investigative and practice purposes Rayman is dressed up in an IPG. I would suggest the same to anyone who wants to use this SJ and do some practice beforehand. On the video Rayman hits his head on the Wooden Platform above. It’s no big deal avoiding that, one can simply use the camera to alter Rayman’s direction. The SJ is possible to carry out frequently, but it may obviously require a restart if Rayman falls to the ground floor in the Tower.

By using this SJ one can avoid getting into the area that will close the door between the first room and the Tower. The price is possibly losing the Elite Monger, at least I have not yet any idea on how to include it in any combo.

But we can now at least add points from the Hoodstormer Combo, the huge Piggybank Combo and the Yellow Gems in the Tower to the total score in TOTL.

There’s still work to do.

[1234]

Great work MandM! I guess now PC-Players should be clearly able to get a new maximum in part 2.

Unfortunately in a few weeks I'll have some exams, so yet I can't take part in the investigations, but after that I'll definitely continue playing R3 and take a look at TOTL (and some other levels). Can't wait for it.

By the way, I found two possibly helpful videos regarding LOTLD and HH.
In the HH-video you can see another possibility to exit the first room in part 2. I'm just not sure how exactly it works and whether it can be done on all platforms.
In the LOTLD-video you can see a possibility to avoid that the gate in part 3 will get closed. However unfortunately it seems to be platform-dependent. I'll make some investigations anyway.

That means that, if there isn't any other problem, at least GC-players should be able to include the gems behind the gate in the final combo of LOTLD and thus reach up to 126159 points.

[MandM81]

Thanks for sharing those videos. I'll try to figure out what happens in HH part 2.

The gate video really looks far out. What the hec triggers the gate to remain open?

[RibShark]

As far as I know Gate Skip Skip (the way to avoid the gate being closed) works on every version of the game, but if you are not on GC then you will need to mash the A button as the level starts (until you can see Rayman) rather than just holding it. The other instructions should be the same as in the video.

I didn't know it would be useful for scoring, otherwise I would have posted it here earlier, as this was found over a year ago.

In the HH2 video, that's GC only, which I thought meant that the glitch is banned for scoring (but maybe I'm wrong?).

[MandM81]

As far as I know Gate Skip Skip (the way to avoid the gate being closed) works on every version of the game, but if you are not on GC then you will need to mash the A button as the level starts (until you can see Rayman) rather than just holding it. The other instructions should be the same as in the video.

I didn't know it would be useful for scoring, otherwise I would have posted it here earlier, as this was found over a year ago.

In the HH2 video, that's GC only, which I thought meant that the glitch is banned for scoring (but maybe I'm wrong?).

Thanks for the update. I'll try to make the Gate Skip work at some point. It gives me a good excuse to revisit a favorite level LOTLD.

I think the HH2 trick could be fun for investigating and exploring purposes. It's possible to reach the maximum score without it, at least with our current knowledge.

As far as my investigations into TOTL goes, I have done some conservative calculations using restrained Lums conversions and arrived at a score of 116.630 points for console players. I have used an average conversion of two Lums on each conversion, skipping the multiple conversions in the Lavicraft Combo in part 2, but in return using a triple conversion in the Heckler - Hoodoo Combo in part 1.

The calculations are done using a none-closed gate between the first room in part 2 and the Tower with the Elite Monger and using an SJ shown in a previous post. That leaves the Elite Monger completely out of the calculations. I need to find around 3.200 more points to be able to realistically reach a maximum score in TOTL using the final combo devised by Maz. Those points could conveniently come from finding a way out of the first room when the gate is closed. Then we would have access to include the Elite Monger into a healthy combo.

There are some other worthwhile considerations.

1. Could it be possible to include the two Pigs in front of the entrance to the final Tower? An SJ is probably needed to get out of that area. There are 860 points in those Pigs.
2. Could it be possible to find an SJ to enter the final Tower? If so, the gate won't close and the acid water won't rise. But we would have to find yet another SJ at the exit of the Tower in order to exit the Tower through the roof. There are almost 1k points in that Tower.

There are still a lot of options.

[Cut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhZGN1h4UoQ

Credits go to Alekzoz! I'll try if this works on PC because if so, this would be a reasonable way to kill the Hoodboom before the Stronghold to guarantee the Double Hoodblaster.

[RibShark]

Won't work on PC, sorry :/

[MandM81]

Well, so far I haven't managed to find a way out of the first room in TOTL part 2 with the door closed. But having made some minor improvements here and there I believe a new maximum for non-IPG players using the final combo from Maz is within reach.

I use a gameplay where I make sure the Door won't close between the areas. In that way I can collect a good deal of points in and after the first Tower. I can collect most of the Yellow Gems in the first Tower and by using this small SJ I have the HMF available to kill the Hoodstormer on the moving platforms with one hit. After that I can get the Piggybank Combo before returning to the first room.

In order to reach the maximum score 115.309 points I will need a score of at least 72.800 points after part 1. So far I have a strategy til reach 74.880 points after part 1, which means I can lose some points along the way. It's still hell to play though.

[Hunchman801]

A new maximum in sight? Glad to see progress is still being made!

[MandM81]

It may take a year and a day to put theory into practise, but yeah, it should be possible.