Rayman 3 scores

[1234]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jITYqwHPBKY

Thanks for the video!
Actually you should be even able to get the green gem for 6000 combo points by taking a few more yellow gems before. I know that it'd make a terrible combo even harder, but for the record it's worth mentioning. In this case the maximum in DOTK should be around 118k-119k points.


I tried to connect the first two rooms in HH2. Unfortunately the rooms are quite far apart from each other, so that my original idea probably won't work out, which is: Play the usual beginning of the second room combo, kill the Hoodstyler, get the green gem, run back to the first room, kill the Elite Monger just in time (apparently impossible) and continue as usual.

Since it doesn't seem to be possible I've altered the combo a bit: You start in the second room with all but one gem, the Elite Monger, his Lum and the door (not exactly in this order). Then renew the HMF, take the last gem (on the nearby box) and kill the Hoodoo as you fall down. If possible convert the Lum. Take the green gem, then lock onto the Hoodstyler from below and kill him with a curved shot. Quickly rush back to the first room (this time without a detour to the green gem) and kill the Elite Monger just in time.

The problem with this combo is that obviously the powerup will run out before you'll be able to kill the Elite Monger. It's still an improvement (I think ~1k points), but it's not enough to allow oneself to play a noticeable easier version of the last room (I've come up with an acceptable combo which loses "only" 1,5k compared to the optimal version, but apparently it's still too much).


Today I also played a bit in LS. Compared to the way how I played part 3, I've found two improvements worth 10 points each. The first one is actually very obvious: After getting the matuvu you can take another crown. The second one is also something expected, but quite a bit harder: You can combine the four crowns near the bridge with a crown above a moving platform.
Maybe you even knew about this combos already, but now we also have them on >>video<<. Aside from this combos, I included all other non-trivial crown combos (except for the one in part 1 with the green gems), since for the greatest part they were in no video until now; at least I think so.
Btw., this means the maximum in LS is 43460 points right now.


@Maz: 53k in FC?
What's next? SBTC or maybe TOTL?

[Maz]

From what I recall, you can't actually connect any other Gems with the ones underneath the Green Gem. The closest would obviously be the one at the top of the bone ladder (which you can even take from above by running), but I think I found out through testing that you can't make that in time. And even the 2 Gems on the smaller bone ladder are a problem because you can't take the Yellow Gem used to combo the Green Gem immediately, which makes for an unforgivingly/impossibly narrow timeframe.

Even if it was possible, it would probably suffer from what I like to call the LOTLD3-Syndrome, where we know that a Combo is possible, but absolutely everyone refuses to actually play it

I tried to connect the first two rooms in HH2. Unfortunately the rooms are quite far apart from each other, so that my original idea probably won't work out, which is: Play the usual beginning of the second room combo, kill the Hoodstyler, get the green gem, run back to the first room, kill the Elite Monger just in time (apparently impossible) and continue as usual.

I was afraid something like that would happen. I had some shenanigans planned for connecting both rooms even before the skip was found, but quickly discovered that they were all unplayable because I severely underestimated the distance between both areas. The placing of the Hoodlums in both rooms is just really unfortunate. If you end up still having to play the hard version of the final Combo (what is the optimal way actually?), it's probably not worth it.

One question though: would it be possible (and if so, beneficial) to just kill the Hoodboom prior to the Elite Monger? Depending on the Elite's position, the Hoodboom might be closer. You'd obviously lose Points from killing the Hoodboom early, but if it worked with the HMF still intact, it should still provide more Points, especially considering that the Elite would move up one spot to element no.16 I think.

@Maz: 53k in FC?
What's next? SBTC or maybe TOTL?

Thanks! TOTL is for when I start using IPGs. I guess I'll have to revisit SBTC now, even though I'm dreading to play that level the old-fashioned way...

[1234]

From what I recall, you can't actually connect any other Gems with the ones underneath the Green Gem. The closest would obviously be the one at the top of the bone ladder (which you can even take from above by running), but I think I found out through testing that you can't make that in time. And even the 2 Gems on the smaller bone ladder are a problem because you can't take the Yellow Gem used to combo the Green Gem immediately, which makes for an unforgivingly/impossibly narrow timeframe.

Even if it was possible, it would probably suffer from what I like to call the LOTLD3-Syndrome, where we know that a Combo is possible, but absolutely everyone refuses to actually play it

If you take the gem at the top of the lower bone ladder from above, then you actually can reach the gems on the other bone ladder in time; I succeeded in it.
The other problem you mentioned with the two gems on the smaller bone ladder might indeed cause trouble. However when you spend basically no time positioning yourself correctly for the SJ, then I think it should work too.
In short, I'd say that it's possible, but then it's very likely that Dr. Maz' diagnosis for the combo would be correct.

If you end up still having to play the hard version of the final Combo (what is the optimal way actually?), it's probably not worth it.

I guess in this case you mean the "final combo" in part 2, do you? Just in case you mean the "very" final combo in part 3, then I think the optimal version is basically the one which I showed in a video, only that you (most likely) can include the Lum from the Hoodboom in the combo.

As for part 2s' final combo, I'm not completely sure about it either. The best version I know is where you start in the shooting gallery with some gems and two Hoodblasters, then continue with the secret room, the single red gem and the Elite Monger, run back to the shooting gallery, take the remaining gems there, kill the last Hoodblaster and finish with the Matuvu.
You can include the mushroom in the combo or you can just take it in combo with a yellow gem in the secret room, which you can do by using an easy SJ to reach the secret room before lowering the mushroom. Both versions are worth 23300 points in total:

With the mushroom: Y Y Y Y Y | Y Y Y H L | H Mu Y R G | Y Y R R R | E Y Y Y Y Y H Ma
Without the mushroom: Y Y Y Y Y | Y Y Y Y Y | H H Y R G | Y Y R R R | E Y Y Y H Ma & Mu Y

The problem I have with this combo(s) is that no matter what I try, I can't reach the gems in the secret room in time. Even when I kill the Hoodblaster with a curved shot very late, run straight across the bridge without getting hit, jump on the mushroom without helicoptering, jump from there into the secret room without grabbing the ledge and then roll into the gems, I'm still too late.

I've tried various other things, but most of it didn't work either. One idea was kind of successful though: One time I managed to convert the Lum from one of the Hoodblasters while standing on the mushroom. If one could do this consistently, the combo would be probably much easier (provided the 2 seconds from the Lum are enough to jump into the secret room and get the gems in time), but unfortunately I couldn't recreate it yet.

One question though: would it be possible (and if so, beneficial) to just kill the Hoodboom prior to the Elite Monger? Depending on the Elite's position, the Hoodboom might be closer. You'd obviously lose Points from killing the Hoodboom early, but if it worked with the HMF still intact, it should still provide more Points, especially considering that the Elite would move up one spot to element no.16 I think.

Your idea sounds actually quite good; it'd in fact give us more points and it'd be more consistent due to the static position of the Hoodboom. Unfortunately I can't reach him in time either if I make a detour to the green gem.
It could be that I didn't use the optimal way finishing off the Hoodstyler though. I mean you can send a curved shot as you jump down or you can roll off or you can kill the Hoodstyler from below or...

I'll still try to somehow make part 2 playable. Once I give up though, I might try out the IPG. Unfortunately I'm just terrible at mashing the look mode button. Also I don't feel good Alt-F4-ing my game every time I fail in a combo.

[Maz]

Your move, Cut!

I think this is the point where I'll just leave my HoF-Score as it is and switch to using IPGs to continue competing outside of the HoF. Maybe I'll try and play something else before to get 890k without IPGs, but this is a Score I can live with (even though I'll have to play SBTC at some point again, that Score is just not good )

Edit: @1234, it took me several hours before I got that connection in the final room for the first time. I know it's frustrating, but try not to get discouraged, you'll get there eventually. Once you succeed, it will get easier, I promise!

Thanks for posting the final Combo. That is indeed the version I used for my Score (except I didn't get the Mushroom in Combo and I also got the Elite as 19th element... I still can't make the connection if I don't roll into the Gems in the secret room, but if I do, I automatically take 3. Even if I could get to the Red Gem next to the Elite on time after exiting the secret room - which I have not yet managed btw - there wouldn't be enough elements).

And yeah, if nothing else works for you, just go for the IPG I guess. I mean, heck, you can even not get the Matuvu in the warehouse in Combo at all and still win 5k+ Points in HH1. With that amount, you wouldn't have to go for the hard version of the final Combo in Part 2, potentially you wouldn't even have to rely on the Heckler-Combo in the beginning.

[1234]

Once again, congratulations! This time for reaching #2 in the HoF!
Seems like MandM's #1 might be "in danger" now. Basically you could even beat his score with just one further improvement, namely in TOTL; you'd need "only" 115681 points in this level, which one can get even without the IPG, at least theoretically.

Edit: @1234, it took me several hours before I got that connection in the final room for the first time. I know it's frustrating, but try not to get discouraged, you'll get there eventually. Once you succeed, it will get easier, I promise!

Thanks for the encouragement! Honestly I don't see myself really doing it though. Even if I succeeded in it once in a ~30-50 attempts, I'd still have to get the other combos in the previous rooms done, which are hardly better than the final one.
Yet I'll try the idea with converting the Lum from a Hoodblaster on the mushroom (actually I could do it today in a way again, so I have some hope). Otherwise I'll stick with an easier version which doesn't require this connection. In case someone's interested and also in case I'll forget about it (which happens often enough with other combos ), I'll quickly explain it:

As a preparation you lower the mushroom and take two gems in the secret room.
The combo you start in the shooting gallery with 10 yellow gems followed by the three Hoodblasters. After that run towards the secret room. Kill the Elite Monger on your way. Get the green gem and then the four remaining gems beside. Fall down on the mushroom and convert the Lum from the Elite Monger. Use the snapshot trick to get the Matuvu (for max. value). Finish off with the single red gem.
In total (meaning with the small mushroom combo and the remaining gems in the shooting gallery) it's worth 21600 points, i.e. 1700 points less than the optimal version.


Unfortunately vacations are coming to its end, while the exam period is nearing. That's why I probably won't be very active in the next time. I'll still try to find a good strategy for HH, so that I can start in the next vacations right away with the hunt for 119k.

[Maz]

Can anyone tell me if there's a consistent way to get the IPG in TOTL2 on PC? I tried Cut's method, but my success-rate was about 3 times in ~10 hours of playtime. Specifically during the last 4-5 hours which I've played, I didn't get it one single time...

[1234]

I can't really help you with this. The only thing I can tell you is that I've noticed that on my old PC it actually worked much better than on the newer one. I'm not sure what's the reason for that though. Maybe, if you want and if you haven't done it already, you might try to play with a worse graphic-setup as Cut advised in the description of his video and see whether it changes something.
Other than that, I think Cut might know more.


I also have a rather technical question. First off an explanation:

A few days ago I tried the non-IPG-version of the warehouse combo. While playing around, I found out that you can get up to the hoodboom a little bit faster by using the second ball exactly in the same way as the first one was used in Maz' video (i.e. jumping on it). The trick is to position it in front of the grid. Here's a video (see 0:07 or 0:17).

While trying it out, I noticed something quite strange: At first I could jump from the second ball to the upper level in basically every single try. Then I made a break for some hours. However when I continued playing after this break, I couldn't make the jump again, no matter how often I restarted the part and how I positioned the ball. And, to make this clear, I didn't change my strategy or anything. On the next day it worked very consistently again.

Now I wonder, whether someone has an explanation for that. I mean I doubt that I suddenly got very bad in this game and then on the next day everything was fine again.
It'd be interesting to know more about it.

[Maz]

Sorry, can't help you out there

I know that sometimes happens with SJs, where you can get one quite consistently and then it just stops working for some reason, but I never had it happen to me with a jump. You said it happened after a break, maybe there was something else running in the back during the restart, which caused a difference in performance for a short amount of time which led to you being unable to jump? Otherwise, there is no logical explanation I could think of.

On that note, nice trick, it will certainly make the Warehouse-Combo easier!

By the way, how's HH2 coming along? Did you find a satisfying solution to your problem yet?

[PluMGMK]

Possibly even the CPU temperature had an impact?

[1234]

Actually all I did during the break was working through a pdf-file and listening to some music. After that I closed everything again. Whether a background process or the CPU temperature caused this oddity, I don't know though. I have no idea how exactly it could influence the game, but well, it's a possibility.
By the way, in my testings this problem didn't occur only once, but at least twice. If it happens again, I'll know what I might check then.

By the way, how's HH2 coming along? Did you find a satisfying solution to your problem yet?

Not really. Well, in room no. 3 probably my best bet is to apply the method where you use a Lum to keep the combo going and reach the secret room in time. Yet I don't know how to make this consistent, but once I find out, I should be good to go (for this combo).

The bigger problem is that I also don't seem to be able to include the Heckler (and thus the Matuvu too) in the first room combo. The "best" alternative would probably be to simply take 8 gems in the first room, kill the Heckler, convert the Lum and finally get the Matuvu. Altogether it'd still lose over 3k points.
For that reason I wanted to take a look at part 1 and see whether I can find some nice extra points there, like the green gem for 9k combo points or so. Yet most of my attempts to find sth. were to no avail though, so it actually seems like including the Heckler in the 1st room combo is mandatory for 119k without the IPG.

As such, I'd like to ask, whether there is more to it than just practicing the optimal charging time (and the timing in general) and hoping for success, i.e. do you or anyone have some tips for the Heckler?

[Maz]

Referring to one of your old videos here, worst case scenario the difference in speed can also be applied to walking/running. When watching videos of you, myself and Cut, I sometimes had the feeling that your running speed is marginally slower than ours. The reason I never mentioned this is because I figured it was just my imagination.

Now if it is the case that you can't succeed in both the first and the third room of HH2 simply because of a difference in performance, I don't really know how to possibly help you. Is there other Combos revealed by Cut/myself where you always had problems because of the time-frame? Because if that is what it comes down to, it would essentially make competing almost obsolete

If it's not that, there isn't really any useful tips I can give you. Some probably obvious things:

1. After finishing off the second Hoodstormer, get as close to the gate as possible to ensure that the Heckler spawns immediately.
2. As soon as the gate opens, immediately strafe backwards.
3. Immediately shoot the Heckler once he enters the room from as far a distance as possible while strafing back (preferably at all times).
4. Once you hit your hit-button for the second time, IMMEDIATELY release strafe and run for the can. On your way there and back to the Yellow Gem, try to go in as straight a line as possible, as swerving eats up additional time.

And that's already everything I can tell you in that regard.

[1234]

Is there other Combos revealed by Cut/myself where you always had problems because of the time-frame?

Well, a few of your/Cuts combos cause some difficulties indeed. Now that I'm thinking of it, especially some combos with a tight powerup time-frame seem impossible to me. For instance in your Double Spinneroo Combo in SBTC 2, I just can't reach the upper level with the HMF (it'll run out at ~0:40), even if I ignore the yellow gems on the way. Or, in DOTK7, Cut said it's possible to kill two of the four Hoodbooms and convert the Lums while wearing the red powerup-suit from the first area. However I can't do it either.

Luckily the combo times are usually shorter than the powerup times, so that it shouldn't have such a big impact. There are still some combos, which might be impossible for me, but I wouldn't blame it all on the different game speed (even though it'd serve as a nice excuse ).

Sure, all that is still a bit unfortunate, but after all there were always lots of platform differences in this game, so one more or less...
I guess we'll simply have to deal with it.
...unless someone of the computer specialists here knows a solution for this problem.

If it's not that, there isn't really any useful tips I can give you. Some probably obvious things:

1. After finishing off the second Hoodstormer, get as close to the gate as possible to ensure that the Heckler spawns immediately.
2. As soon as the gate opens, immediately strafe backwards.
3. Immediately shoot the Heckler once he enters the room from as far a distance as possible while strafing back (preferably at all times).
4. Once you hit your hit-button for the second time, IMMEDIATELY release strafe and run for the can. On your way there and back to the Yellow Gem, try to go in as straight a line as possible, as swerving eats up additional time.

Thanks, I'll make sure to follow your advise! Then I'll see whether I can master the combo or whether I'll have to admit defeat. In the latter case it'll probably come down to the IPG in part 1. With this I should be allowed to make quite a few combos easier.
In any case, I look forward going for a "real" maximum again. Seeing a nice 100009 on the counter before the final combo points are ticking in...

[Maz]

2 Hoodbooms with the HMF in DOTK7? Scratch that, it's possible to get all 4 (AND their Lums) before it runs out. If you can't even get one, that's a very serious handicap. Granted, it can be kind of evened out in DOTK1 (I can't make the jump to the Piggybank in the Hoodblaster-Combo, no matter what I do), but it still has huge implications. Who knows where else it might cause trouble...

Anyway, good luck with HH. I've given up on TOTL for now (the IPG just doesn't like me) to start over CF, where I'm aiming for at least 131k. After that, I'll probably play HH again to get the maximum and finally put my total Score over 900k. After all, it's about damn time that I rewarded my work in R3 with reaching that milestone

[1234]

2 Hoodbooms with the HMF in DOTK7? Scratch that, it's possible to get all 4 (AND their Lums) before it runs out.

All four?
I tried it today again, but I actually can't even get the first one with the HMF. On my old PC I could barely get one iirc.
As an estimation I'd say that about 2 seconds are missing. The HMF powerup stays for about 12 seconds. If I can generalize that, it'd mean that 2 seconds on your/Cuts PC correspond to about 1.7 seconds on my PC, I think, so maybe I shouldn't expect too much from the Heckler in HH2...

At least I know that it's not (just) because of my inability, but rather due to some platform differences.

Anyway, good luck with HH.

Thanks! Good luck to you as well in CF and in your quest for 900k!
I guess that'll be the first score over 130k in a level then (aside from TAS-scores).
Do you actually know how many points are theoretically possible in this level with the IPGs and the double Hoodlums?

By now I'm also working on the video list, which I said I'd do. Stupidly I underestimated the amount of videos we have, so I guess it'll take some time.
Also, Cut, how exactly should the list actually look like, so that we can include it conveniently in your tool you are/were working at? Basically I simply take the links (including the names of the respective combos) and sort them by level, part and roughly by the order how you are supposed to play them. Is that ok or is there more I should bear in mind?

[Maz]

I think the HMF lasts 15 seconds, but yeah, same concept. Maybe I'll try to make a video at some point for comparison.

Thanks! Good luck to you as well in CF and in your quest for 900k!

Thanks!

Actually, you forgot about MandM's 133.719 in SBTC. But I guess you can say that it's the first Score beyond 130k where we actually know where it's coming from.

I don't actually know what's possible and what's not in CF3. I'm currently using a Combo that's worth 37.020 (can be improved to 37.720 if you want to be stuck in this part for all eternity) which in its current state would not be possible with the double Hoodlum, so I'm not taking that into consideration. These Scores are pretty much the highest you can humanly obtain to my knowledge:

CF1: 24.360
CF2: 53.430 (77.790)
CF3: 55.020 (132.910)

But don't quote me on the accuracy.

I already know that, once I succeed in my personal final Combo, I will end up on 131.840 Points (unless I get a mood swing and decide that I want to go for 132.200 instead), which would put me to 896.645 (or 897.005) in total. That means that the 900k would be in reach with HH. Unfortunately, I was stuck on the final Combo all weekend, so it's probably still gonna take a while until that happens

[1234]

Thanks!
132910 in CF is definitely a lot.
Also, I indeed forgot MandMs' 133k. My bad!

However I think that the HMF actually lasts for 12 seconds, at least going by your Spinneroo Combo in SBTC2. It doesn't really matter though.

By the way, with the extra points for the Hoodbooms in DOTK7 and with the green gem in part 3 for 6000 combo points, the maximum in this level should be (at least) 118950 I think.

Unfortunately this makes the walkthrough for this level outdated. The problem is that in order to update it, I'd have to change dozens of numbers, all by hand, which I don't really want to do.
That's why I wonder, whether there is a nice solution to that? E.g. can you do some basic calculations on the Wiki and declare variables etc.? I actually doubt it, but I want to be sure.

It might be that Cut sort of solved the problem thanks to his Combo Manager though. It's just that I still have an older version of the program, hence I don't know all the new (well, meanwhile over a year old) features yet.
Apropos new version, is there a way to get the current one? 'Cause unfortunately the download link doesn't work properly any more...

[Maz]

https://ibb.co/jZCmTb

I didn't finish HH yet (stupid "7" at the end -_-), so that's not my final Score, but I was just so happy to see that number in the upper right corner that I took a screenshot anyway

Edit: And now, it's official! Passed 900k at long last!

[1234]

Congratulations on passing this incredible milestone!
That's quite a feat, especially considering that about a month ago you had "only" ~850k points.

What level do you intend to improve next? Looking at your scores, only TOTL appears to be quite improveable yet, and maybe also LS and SBTC a bit. However in the other levels it should be exceedingly difficult to do any better.

As for your HH-score, how did it actually come that you got 140 points less than the maximum I calculated, if I may ask?
I assume you didn't convert the Lum from the Hoodboom and you maybe accidently took a red gem from the first piggybank too early, did you?

Anyway, it's still an awesome score.
It won't be easy to beat it, but I think I'll still give it a shot after the exams. We'll see.

[PluMGMK]

Hey, congratulations Maz!

[Hunchman801]

Very impressive indeed!