Rayman 4 (early Rayman Raving Rabbids)

[DerpyBoxDX]

Oh boy! The Finalized Iceberg is here!

That post explains so much of the current video game industry and Ubisoft phenomena, it's no surprise that's what happened in retrospect. Absolutely amazing that the Rayman 4 source code was found though, an absolute win

Plus, knowing how the gaming industry nowadays invested more on trends to make a quick buck. Sad really due to the nature of microtransactions, pay to win loot boxes, unfinished games, live service, and so on within. At least games that were cancelled gets leaked like the RRR Proto.

[MaryMagicPie]

I believe all of this.

[DerpyBoxDX]

BTW, here's something you guys should look at... And it's not the faint of heart... So here's the backstory of Phenoix Rayman 4 + RRR Proto Backstory (as seen in the iceberg:
For the TL;DR of that Imgur post if anyone has seen it or not:

UPDATE 4/4/2023: As requested by Droolie, I have removed the link and the text that contained the backstory in order to respect that user’s identify for the sake of the backstory of Phenoix and RRR Proto development.)

[PluMGMK]

Oh yeah, we already have a text archive of that thread actually: https://raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p1440255

Maybe it should be posted in the RaymanPC documentary, even if it is pretty negative…

[Droolie]

<link>

<text archive>

Could this link & the text archive please be removed? It's not very nice to share captures of a (now deleted) twitter thread from a private (at the time) twitter account in public... Not only that, but both links clearly reveal the person's identity. I spoke to the person in question, and they would not like to see the thread be archived like this.

[DerpyBoxDX]

<link>

Could this link & the text archive please be removed? It's not very nice to share captures of a (now deleted) twitter thread from a private (at the time) twitter account in public... Not only that, but both links clearly reveal the person's identity. I spoke to the person in question, and they would not like to see the thread be archived like this.

Already removed the link and if you want me to removed the TL DR, I will remove it in case.

[DaveRattlehead]

I guess the deleted message refers to that guy on Twitter who made a very long thread commenting on how he was asking various former developers about Rayman 4. I don't quite remember if it's mentioned at some point or if it's known, but was there a specific reason Ubisoft gave Phoenix Studios the responsibility of developing Rayman 4? The Rabbids idea I think was acknowledged by Michel Ancel himself in an interview years ago, but hey, I thought the thread was pretty interesting. Of course, the treatment that guy got from some people was pretty disgusting.

It's been a few months since the leaks and I still think the responsible must have been an insider. The workers are pretty pissed off at Ubisoft and I wouldn't put it past them that leaking Rayman 4 was a way to point the finger at Ubisoft and leave the company at the horses' feet.

[deton24]

If someone hasn't seen. New Droolie's Rayman 4 (Raving Rabbids) Prototype Patch is out:
viewtopic.php?t=75066

[Mortamon Saturn]

Bump.
Don't know if it's the best place to share this (as it definitely covers more than just this topic), but it has been brought to my attention that this BIG document was just shared on Twitter, regarding Rayman 4 by Phoenix Studio, the early Raving Rabbids and some behind-the-scenes development/Ubisoft stuff:
https://x.com/KnuckleMcspaz/status/1804444547260281291
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M3K ... Uode0/edit

I didn't had the time to read much of it yet, but this reveals for example that Rayman 4 by Phoenix Studio was meant to be called Rayman Ghosts, due to featuring gameplay mechanics involving ghosts of different abilities following Rayman and performing actions for the player, which ended up turning the project into more of a puzzle game... And it does seem like the development went pretty roughly from what I comprehend so far...

Oh, and there's also this:

GQqs0skX0AA-b8z.png (7.21 KiB) Viewed 2088 times

GQqs6-yXYAAQ-zN.jpg (23.37 KiB) Viewed 2088 times

[DaveRattlehead]

That's interesting, because that same person showed a couple of beta RRR photos almost a month ago! I haven't read anything of that document (I'll attach a PDF version so it can be preserved ), but in case what he's saying is real, I wonder what's going on behind these "leaks"

The Rayman 4 Story (Phoenix, Rabbids, & My Letter of Resignation).pdf

(772.06 KiB) Downloaded 51 times

Just an interesting quote here...

He has a cool 90's attitude with his funny design but I always wonder why his fans are so passionate about him. Sadly I know that Ancel, his own creator, is tired of him and Ubi thinks he is outdated so it always amazes me to see that in parallel there are so many fans who are still waiting for a new game or anything with him in it.

[Mortamon Saturn]

And I know for a fact this same person shared a lot more in the past under their former user name... "Fancy Father". And considering the friend who brought this document to my attention told me "I waited with impatience for him to release this document" and that he has long followed Fancy for this very reason, it seems it had been planned for a long time and he was just waiting for the "right moment"...

This person is the source for many of the Rayman 4/early Rabbids leaks we had in the past few years, and if the document is to be believed... also the cause for pretty much all of them.

I wonder what's going on behind these "leaks"

To summarize the reason from some parts I just read, simply gifting Rémi Gazel an illustration (which resulted in him being approached for illustrating the Rayman by Rémi project) accidentally led him down a "connection stream" over time with many people who worked at Ubisoft, including some pretty big names, which then allowed him to do some "detective work" which led to a dark rabbit hole and to a lot of content and informations being revealed... And the perspective it offers on the games' development and especially some specific people at Ubi seems... very sad...
And thus, it resulted in a lot content being shared over time as "leaks".
All of this document is a lot to take in so I'll reread it later with a clearer mind...

The part about Gazel does resonate with me for a particular reason dating back to 2018...
Rémi Gazel was very nice with me the few times I got to talk to him (and he went as far as reading the *massive* Rayman tribute article I wrote when I began making online content in 2018 ).
However, he seemed rather... oddly "cold" in the email exchanges (-and also final talks-) I had with him once I wanted to personally thank him after I purchased the Rayman by Rémi album...
Most likely because I was a stupid young man who blindly looked up to all the creators of his childhood's game at that time (trust me, I regret a lot of praise from my old article even for the joking ones ; especially regarding a "certain individual" [*monster] I naively discovered through the lens of L'Histoire de Rayman... )... If that document tells the truth, then that would explain a lot...



By the way...

Other than the supposed lack of creative vision for the project on Michel Ancel’s end, most of the narrative elements (in regards to Rayman and Andre’s supposed girlfriend-rescuing antics) as shown in the concept art is rightfully attributed to Jacques Exertier, a prolific multi-faceted creative who not only is credited for writing and visual work on Rayman 2: The Great Escape but also Beyond Good & Evil.

Could it be "J"?

[DaveRattlehead]

I read the document this afternoon and quickly realized it was about this person who leaked a lot of Rayman 4 stuff. If I remember correctly, he made a thread on Twitter a few years ago commenting that he was having a pretty bad time. Although much of the history was known, the document details some interesting things. I think what has caught my attention the most are the negative comments towards Michel Ancel. A few years ago I remember there were public complaints towards him, so these comments could make a lot of sense...

[Hunchman801]

I shared this here too, as it's also about Phoenix's Rayman 4.

[Tribelle2026]

Seeing as someone was able to get in contact with ex-devs of Phoenix Interactive's Rayman 4 and Ubisoft's Rayman Raving Rabbids prototype, I wonder if it would be possible to find and get in contact with anyone who worked on the cancelled Rayman 2000 and Rayman Éducation games. We know virtually nothing about these games aside from three pieces of concept art for Rayman Éducation.

[Greengoop]

I think that calling this leak the “Rayman 4 Leak” is really misleading as Rayman 4 can either refer to Phoenix’s cancelled 2005 project or Ubisoft’s cancelled 2007 project. The Rabbids have never had anything to do with “Rayman 4” whatsoever.

[Droolie]

I think that calling this leak the “Rayman 4 Leak” is really misleading as Rayman 4 can either refer to Phoenix’s cancelled 2005 project or Ubisoft’s cancelled 2007 project. The Rabbids have never had anything to do with “Rayman 4” whatsoever.

Where is this coming from? It's totally wrong, in fact calling anything else "Rayman 4" is much more misleading as Rayman Raving Rabbids is the only "Rayman 4" that was ever publicly revealed as such. Even in the final party game, "Rayman4.bf" is still the name of the game's big data file.

There are several other cancelled "next Rayman game" projects, but none of them were officially revealed.

1. The first one that I know of was supposed to start in Montréal around the release of Rayman 3 in 2003, but it didn't because Michel Ancel wanted Rayman for himself. Which is good, because it gave us the masterpiece that is Prince of Persia: the Sands of Time.
2. Phoenix had another Rayman game in development in 2005, that indeed had the working title "Rayman 4" but we only found out about that through ex-devs posting concept art and entries on resumes. From one ex-Ubisoft Montréal dev's website, we found out that Ubisoft Montréal was helping with this project before it got cancelled during King Kong's development. This info lines up with my own findings about Phoenix using Ubisoft Montréal's version of Jade Engine instead of Ubisoft Montpellier's.
3. Between 2007-2009 there was another Rayman project by Ubisoft Paris (with Grant Kirkhope involved as composer). This is the one with Cielle and the "punished Rayman" design. I don't remember if this one was ever called "Rayman 4".
4. Finally, there was another 3D Rayman project in early development in 2013 after Rayman Legends (also possibly not "Rayman 4"). We know nothing about this one.

(I'm not including Rayman 4 DS, while this was originally its own game it was still finished as a DS version of RRR)

That's right. Including Rayman Raving Rabbids, there were not one, not two, but 5 known cancelled Rayman 4s. Out of all of them, RRR got the furthest in development, and I believe it had the most potential as well. I know a lot of people in the fanbase believe Phoenix's project to be the most interesting, and that's fine, to each their own, though based on what we heard from devs I think people will be very disappointed when they discover it was just an isometric puzzle platformer with the nonexistent mechanical complexity of Winnie the Pooh's Rumbly Tumbly Adventure.

Speaking of cancelled projects, I don't know if I've ever posted this but it seems that right around the time that the Phoenix project started development, there were also plans for a Rayman TV show written by writers of Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Assassin's Creed. Obviously it never came out. Between this, the Moldies, and the later episodes of the original TV show, we can start building similar lists but for cancelled TV shows.

[Greengoop]

Firstly, thanks for sharing this! Whilst I still think it’s an inaccurate name for it, since it was coded as Rayman 4 and Big Mike himself referred to it as that definitely means it’s not a total long shot.

Finally, there was another 3D Rayman project in early development in 2013 after Rayman Legends (also possibly not "Rayman 4"). We know nothing about this one.

Hang on a minute, that was 3D? I thought it was just gonna be another 2D one, like Rayman Myths or something.

I know a lot of people in the fanbase believe Phoenix's project to be the most interesting, and that's fine, to each their own, though based on what we heard from devs I think people will be very disappointed when they discover it was just an isometric puzzle platformer with the nonexistent mechanical complexity of Winnie the Pooh's Rumbly Tumbly Adventure.

I believe the story was that they started the project as a platformer, and it then devolved into the Puzzle Game after they realised that they couldn’t make a traditional 3D platformer for the life of them. Am I right?

Speaking of cancelled projects, I don't know if I've ever posted this but it seems that right around the time that the Phoenix project started development, there were also plans for a Rayman TV show written by writers of Prince of Persia: Warrior Within and Assassin's Creed. Obviously it never came out. Between this, the Moldies, and the later episodes of the original TV show, we can start building similar lists but for cancelled TV shows.

Cool!

[Maticosmo]

Zippyshare is dead

[Droolie]

Zippyshare is dead

Well the zippyshare link in this thread is outdated. The latest version of the patch can be found here: viewtopic.php?t=75066

[RaypersonNikol]

That's interesting, because that same person showed a couple of beta RRR photos almost a month ago! I haven't read anything of that document (I'll attach a PDF version so it can be preserved ), but in case what he's saying is real, I wonder what's going on behind these "leaks"


The Rayman 4 Story (Phoenix, Rabbids, &amp; My Letter of Resignation).pdf



Just an interesting quote here...

He has a cool 90's attitude with his funny design but I always wonder why his fans are so passionate about him. Sadly I know that Ancel, his own creator, is tired of him and Ubi thinks he is outdated so it always amazes me to see that in parallel there are so many fans who are still waiting for a new game or anything with him in it.

ngl that quote broke my heart for some reason.