Rayman 3 scores

[Cut]

Let's go on, better for my blood pressure.
So CF? There we got the Cutscene-Breaking in part 1, two superjumps in CF part 2 (they're the same as in the speedrunners strat for CF2) and the mushroom-trick in CF3 (Jona 2006, you remember?)

[MandM81]

If that's your positive list, then I'm ok with it.

I do remember the Mushroom trick and I have used it myself. I would like to add another glitch/trick that can make the annoying Mushroom jumping irrelevant. You can run towards the Hoodboom, jump and helicopter towards him with a charged fist. You have to time the jump at the right moment just before the cutscene starts. Then make another jump by just touching the ground avoiding the cutscene for the second time. Kill the Hoodboom while helicoptering.

It gives you an extra 100 points and the gate will not close. The downside is, it requires a plethora of restarts to work.

Other than that, I have nothing to add.

[Cut]

You need the red can to do this due to the 6HP of the Hoodboom which will cost ~800 points at the piggybanks before (managing to hit him twice is almost unreasonable). But yeah, this should be another legal method. Also a case of "Cutscene-Breaking"

I don't know anything whe should permit in CF so on with BOM.
Mushroom Trick in part 2, Mushroom Trick in part 3, Razoff Villa Glitch, Razoff Dungeon Glitch. Nothing special or new here I think

[sfn42]

Again, what's the point of that? There are probably a million superjumps and launching glitches in CF. Either we allow all of them or none of them. And that is true for every single level in this game. You're wasting everyone's time right now, as the discussion about the thing in FC proved. Plus, the issue of representative samples comes up again: you two are randomly agreeing on some glitches and suddenly they are on "the positive list" and that's it? Consistency in argumentation is my biggest issue right now, though. You are arguing that debating the missing vortex in FC is not worth a debate for "pragmatic approach to platform differences", but you are using platform differences to justify starting a debate over and possibly banning something that is worth roughly the same amount of points (maybe even less) than the missing vortex. That is completely inconsistent, as is the whole "positive list"-idea in the way it is being executed now.

[MandM81]

1. The reasoning behind the positive list has been explained several times.

2. The discussion about the glitch in FC was important for several reasons. Does it work for all players? How should it be categorized? And do we wish to allow a glitch of this nature into the HoF? If we don’t take these discussions now the matter will come back to haunt us.

3. We are two discussing this right now, yes. But everyone can join in, including you. Anyway, Cut and I don’t decide anything at this point. We try to list the glitches we use or know about. When the list is done, the forum will decide what the final outcome should be. Representative samples are not relevant at this point.

4. The missing Vortex is not on the table right now. If you wish to discuss this matter, we can do it of course.

5. As for glitches vs. platform dependence, I believe you (TSF) already practice that.

[sfn42]

1. The reasoning behind the positive list has been explained several times.

I am not against the positive list per se. I am against this atomistic and inconsistent process of compiling it because it leads us nowhere. Cut has provided a list of glitch categories in a previous post. I suggest that everybody looks at that and thinks of glitches/instances that defy that or other possible issues with that list. I believe that this list can then serve as a basis for how we categorize glitches for the HoF.

2. The discussion about the glitch in FC was important for several reasons. Does it work for all players? How should it be categorized? And do we wish to allow a glitch of this nature into the HoF? If we don’t take these discussions now the matter will come back to haunt us.

If it's a superjump it works, if it's a glidewalk it doesn't. It doesn't tell us anything new about anything. Plus, I'm pretty sure the speedrunners have a superjump from the platform of the shield-hoodlum.

3. We are two discussing this right now, yes. But everyone can join in, including you. Anyway, Cut and I don’t decide anything at this point. We try to list the glitches we use or know about. When the list is done, the forum will decide what the final outcome should be. Representative samples are not relevant at this point.

We already have a list of the glitches we use and know about, provided by Cut. Listing every instance of those glitches gets us nowhere, as I have said 4 times already.

4. The missing Vortex is not on the table right now. If you wish to discuss this matter, we can do it of course.

You're completely missing my point here. This is not about the missing vortex per se but about a consistent approach to glitches and platform differences which I am sorely missing right now.

5. As for glitches vs. platform dependence, I believe you (TSF) already practice that.

I don't understand what you're refering to here. Could you elaborate on that?

[MandM81]

Cut: I agree on BOM.

Sfn: I was merely referring to your ban on the GW.

[Cut]

LOTLD: Mushroom-Trick in part 1. Infinite Powerup Glitch and Superdive in part 2 (Superdive is NOT possible in LOTLD3 and 4 but in LA3, unfortunately useless), the combination of IPG and Superdive has some crazy influence on some level-elements. The balloons disappear and the final hoodlum with the yellow can is missed. The maximum-score stays the same. Before IPG it was easy to get the maximum, now it's harder to miss it than to achieve it but well, if you play serious combos with the IPG in LOTLD2, the level is actually harder than the usual way due to the enormous freedom but also because of the broken camera at the Matuvu-Tribelle-Combo. It's really fun to have a fling there.

Part 3 has a Superjump/Glidewalk to skip the whole level. Not interesting. In Part 4 you can skip the whole level too by a Pigroll. Part 5 has Roket's Glitch (fun fact: I'm convinced that the 100k-limit itself is just a glitch, they would not have removed it in R3HD if they had programmed it intentionally as it keeps scoring from becoming absurd).

[MandM81]

I have nothing to add to LOTLD. Interesting idea you have about the 100k limit. If this is indeed a glitch, then why would the green gem not count in a Powerup combo when taken as item 16 or later? Is that another glitch that by chance conveniently “repairs” the 100k glitch? It has always been the assumption that the green gem limitation was connected with the scoring limit. I wonder if the green gem Powerup limitation is found on R3HD?

DOTK.

Part 1.
SJs in the second area. Not relevant when it comes to scoring.
Knaaren glitch, non-glitch alternative.

Part 3.
PCMs have not been mentioned so far, which is fine. This one will give you the Green Gem with a Powerup (Throttle Copter) and generally save you a lot of time in this part. It has no influence on the maximum score, but it has great exploring value for those who can trigger it.

Part 7.
SJ can be used to reach and break the cage to get the HMF.
The Hoodlock Shield glitch.

Part 8.
SJ used to reach level with Hoodblasters.

[Cut]

In DOTK, the Lums-Glitch is introduced. But should be everything then. BTW, I explored Part 3 with the CheatEngine-IPG as I was interested wheter they could be a 3rd matuvu explaining the high 100%-score in this level (maybe it was accidentaly placed inside the wall or something). It's incredible how huge this part is and how little you see from it when you're playing this part on the fastest way but I couldn't find anything.

LS got nothing, you can skip the crowns in every part with Superjumps/Glidewalks.

SBTC has the Ship Glitch which is impossible on PS2, but with a working alternative. SBTC2 includes some high jumps, most of them are only possible with extended Jump-Height (Xbox, maybe GC, definetly not on PC), but there are so many points that it won't hurt to miss some of them. Part 3 has tons of launching-glitches due to the crappy collision-detection and one of them is the green-gem-launch for 111-112k points.

@GreenGemThing: I think it's the 4-digit-combo-display. It was programmed to accept overflows, but when this overflow is caused by one single element (which is the case when a green gem is worth 12k or 15k combo-points), the add-element-to-combo-function itself has an overflow which can not be handled by the game so these green gems won't count anything. In the R3-Beta, green gems were only worth 100 points so maybe the scoring-system was programmed early and the developers didn't think about this theoretical situation when they increased it's value to 1500 points.

[MandM81]

SBTC is indeed noted for the launching glitches. Also, the PCM in part 2 has some exploration value.

HH has previously been seen as one of the least glitchy levels. There are a number of GWs and SJs, mainly in part 2. They are good for exploring but don’t really add anything score wise. These glitches are all found in the speedrunner videos.

I have nothing to add to HH.

The five digit combo value could be a reasonable explanation for the green gem limitation.

[GOT4N]

PLEASE! Why you call them "launching glitch", their names are rolling superjump!

[Adsolution]

PLEASE! Why you call them "launching glitch", their names are rolling superjump!

Because the term 'launching glitch' refers to more than just the 'rolling superjump'. Also, why do you care so much, especially if you aren't even the one who initially discovered this glitch? Please stop, there are more important matters at hand right now.

[GOT4N]

It's my friend Andzura who discovered it randomly, and I discovered how to use it first.
And, I'm not the one who calls them Rolling Superjump, all Rayman 3 who uses that glitch call them "RSJ" or "Rolling superjump".

[DTUCC]

It's my friend Andzura who discovered it randomly, and I discovered how to use it first.
And, I'm not the one who calls them Rolling Superjump, all Rayman 3 who uses that glitch call them "RSJ" or "Rolling superjump".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRXES1coIU

the earliest video of the scoring community utilizing a launching glitch goes back to 2007. we've been using them since 2003 however, when they were discovered. i might be wrong, but i'd assume the speedrunners don't know of these since 2003?

[sfn42]

And, I'm not the one who calls them Rolling Superjump, all Rayman 3 who uses that glitch call them "RSJ" or "Rolling superjump".

No, this just flat out wrong. Only the speedrunners call it that. The scoring community has been calling it launching glitch since 2003 and will continue to do so. Please stop bringing this up again and again.

[GOT4N]

It's my friend Andzura who discovered it randomly, and I discovered how to use it first.
And, I'm not the one who calls them Rolling Superjump, all Rayman 3 who uses that glitch call them "RSJ" or "Rolling superjump".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRXES1coIU

the earliest video of the scoring community utilizing a launching glitch goes back to 2007. we've been using them since 2003 however, when they were discovered. i might be wrong, but i'd assume the speedrunners don't know of these since 2003?

You're mid-right , but when we're tazlking about rsj, we're talking about one one pig, on a platform, and other ways.
Also, I posted it twice, because every post I made, everyone ignore me

[Adsolution]

Because nobody cares. Now drop it, that's not what this is about.

[GOT4N]

Yeah, and why when me and RibShark extracted the beta textures nobody cares?
I'm pretty sure if me and ribshark or Droolie post exact same content, I'll get the less reponse, and please don't be mean like that, that's not because you're a moderator you have to be like a douchebag.

[RibShark]

Adsolution is right, you know. This topic is for R3 scores, not for debating over which name goes with a glitch. The beta textures have nothing to do with it, and I'm sure you would gain the same response that me, Droolie or anyone else would if you posted it.