What becomes of the Knaaren?

[PluMGMK]

I've been thinking lately about what happens in the Desert of the Knaaren after Rayman leaves it. We know that André persuades Reflux to steal the Sceptre from Gumsi, but we never see how that happens. Does he do it on his own or does he have the support of other Knaaren? A description of Gumsi (that was on the official French site for Rayman 3) suggests that his youth makes him an object of veneration, but he often needs the support of the Leptys, via the Sceptre, to maintain discipline. One can easily see a band of malcontents rowing in behind Reflux to dethrone the tyrant, though not necessarily realizing that he intends to use the Sceptre to assist André.

Then what happens next? There was a scrapped scene at the end of the game in which Leptys thanks Rayman for destroying the Sceptre so no-one can ever call on him again, and grants Rayman one wish. Even if this scene didn't make it into the final game, it is quite clear that the Sceptre gets destroyed, and so therefore is Gumsi's ability to wield power among the Knaaren. One could easily see an all-out revolution occurring down in those tunnels, and/or major schisms in their society. Perhaps some Knaaren, realizing that their god has no intention of ever aiding them again, tear down all the statues and symbols, while others continue to denounce such actions as heresy.

Of course, the Teensies would no doubt notice this as well, and probably use their magic (derived from Polokus) to run rings around the fragmenting Knaaren society, with no more Leptys-derived magic to counteract it. I could easily see the few remaining Knaaren caged up like zoo animals, either in the tunnels, or transported elsewhere as a curiosity. Better/worse yet, they could simply die out due to their own in-fighting and unwillingness to reproduce given their bad experience with youth (Gumsi).

Overall, I'm pretty sure that André inflicted a blow on Knaaren society from which it would prove impossible to recover. I guess, like the Bégoniax/Razoff thing, it's another example of Rayman leaving chaos in his wake as he attempted to vanquish the Hoodlums. I wonder if that was the intention of the Teensies (or even Polokus himself) by sending him to all those far-flung places…

[Nve]

It's a very interesting plot with a lot of opportunities. I wonder if the shield-protection ability would still work for the Knaarens after the sceptre got destroyed. This would have an impact on the future of them, for example, would they still be the masters of the caves. By the way, I get a thought whether the protection is working among them. It would certainly change the aspect of the potential revolution.

[PluMGMK]

Yes, of course, the shields. They certainly make one think twice before dismissing the Teensies' "invincible" comment as mere hyperbole. Would they cease to function after the destruction of the Sceptre? Perhaps not. Maybe the shield power was conferred upon each Knaaren as a once-off, and remains with them until they die. After all, Rayman still had the power to turn André back into a Red Lum immediately after the destruction of the Sceptre. If the Knaaren alive at the time of Rayman 3 retained their shields, maybe the status quo wouldn't crumble as quickly as I had imagined.

Although, maybe Rayman's conversion of André was just "one last use" of the power before he and Globox were ejected from that alien place above the Tower. I'm guessing he doesn't retain the power in Hoodlums' Revenge? In that case, maybe the Knaaren lose their shields after all.

[StelzenBomber]

ill just think they all turened into stone, and after andree dies they just .... go extinct

[PluMGMK]

Yeah, their extinction is a possibility, isn't it? But what makes you think they turned to stone, in particular?

[StelzenBomber]

Yeah, their extinction is a possibility, isn't it? But what makes you think they turned to stone, in particular?

kind of like reflux in the last battle after defeat, even if its more like ice
Also knaaren always looked stony to me

[Aaron]

Hmm, that's an interesting and tough question for sure, also good point actually, because I don't know what happens to them. I mean, like you said, André persuades Reflux to steal the Leptys' Sceptre, but in that scene, we don't see any of the Knaaren besides Reflux. Maybe they left the desert because they had nothing left to do there because they're invincible, they can't just die.

[StelzenBomber]

Hmm, that's an interesting and tough question for sure, also good point actually, because I don't know what happens to them. I mean, like you said, André persuades Reflux to steal the Leptys' Sceptre, but in that scene, we don't see any of the Knaaren besides Reflux. Maybe they left the desert because they had nothing left to do there because they're invincible, they can't just die.

I say before they stole the cepter, they still lived
after they stole it , they got stoned (no pun)
After reflux dies and andree gets turned into a red lum, they all shatter

actualy they can die (minigames)

[Aaron]

Yeah, I know what you're saying, I was just saying it's an interesting and tough question to PluMGMK because it was his question but I didn't want to quote his wall of text.

[StelzenBomber]

oh my bad

[Aaron]

It's okay.

Also, the Knaaren can die in that minigame called Sentinel where you have to throw explosive plum juice at the Knaaren to defeat them, but in the game itself, they can't. Another thing, that's just a minigame, which means it's not a part of the story and doesn't drive the story in different ways in any way.

[StelzenBomber]

It's okay.

Also, the Knaaren can die in that minigame called Sentinel where you have to throw explosive plum juice at the Knaaren to defeat them, but in the game itself, they can't. Another thing, that's just a minigame, which means it's not a part of the story and doesn't drive the story in different ways in any way.

i did say they can die in the minigame
it at least confirms that they can die

[PluMGMK]

Yeah, boombo had a theory that they were sent after Reflux to retrieve the Sceptre. So even if they were literally invincible, the theft of the Sceptre could negate that, explaining the premise of the minigame.

[The Jonster]

Yeah, their extinction is a possibility, isn't it? But what makes you think they turned to stone, in particular?

kind of like reflux in the last battle after defeat, even if its more like ice
Also knaaren always looked stony to me

Yes it does make sense why Reflux turned to ice/stone or whatever since the Scepter became a part of him, but it doesn't really explain to me how the rest of the Knaaren can turn into stone. Still a curious theory though, that maybe whatever affected the scepter would affect the Knaaren too.

I will agree though that they can be killed though bc of the minigame. Kinda funny that without their shields, all that was needed to kill the Knaaren were bombs made out of plum juice.

[Steo]

When I first seen this thread, what immediately came to mind is why would the other Knaaren turn to stone just because Reflux did. The only other thing I could think of is how he spawns Knaaren during the second battle, so maybe they were all just merged together into one and Rayman killed them all at once when he defeated Reflux, but I don't think that really makes much sense.

[PluMGMK]

He spawns Hoodlums, not Knaaren! But yeah, I don't see any reason to think they all died at the same moment as Reflux.

[Steo]

Hey, I didn't crush your self esteem when you counted wrong.

To be honest, I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I wrote that. Let's just say I was drunk, because I clearly wasn't thinking straight.

As for my original thought, I don't see why they'd all turn to stone just because Reflux did either way. There was never any evidence to suggest that as far as I can tell.

[Hunchman801]

Whatever the answer is, I sure hope it will be explored in the next Rayman, if we ever get one.

Regarding the Knaaren's invincibility though, I don't think it's as bad as it looks. Sure, Rayman doesn't pack enough firepower to damage them, but I'm sure other creatures could, regardless of the actual canonicity of the Sentinel minigame.

Invincible doesn't mean immortal anyway, and they'd probably die from crossing the desert. I mean, don't they live in the caves because they can't stand the heat? Surely no magic shield could help with that.

[Original Character]

There was a scrapped scene at the end of the game in which Leptys thanks Rayman for destroying the Sceptre so no-one can ever call on him again, and grants Rayman one wish.

Would appreciate a source on this

[PluMGMK]

There was a scrapped scene at the end of the game in which Leptys thanks Rayman for destroying the Sceptre so no-one can ever call on him again, and grants Rayman one wish.

Would appreciate a source on this

It's written on the French RayWiki article, sourced from the "script of the beta". After a bit of searching, I found it: viewtopic.php?p=894485#p894485

En brisant le sceptre ancestral, tu m'as rendu la liberté. \lPersonne ne pourra plus utiliser ma puissance.

Pour te remercier, je t'accorde un voeu. Pense à ce \lque tu désires le plus, et je te l'offrirai !
Ayé !

Hein ? \lTu es sûr que c'est ça que tu veux ?

Très bien...

Et bien voilà. Je crois que je vais \lpouvoir finir ma nuit...

That wiki article could definitely use more inline citations though.