Talk:Murray

Name

I can see the name of this article was changed from 'Giant eel' to 'Guardian of the Ocean World'. Not only is it, in my opinion, unnecessarily long and contrived, it also makes very little sense as this article is about the species, and not specifically about the individual guarding the Sea of Serendipity. Moreover, the attribute 'giant' may not be official, but calling them 'eels' is not less justified than calling their smaller counterparts 'Mini-Murrays', as both names come from the level names.

The 'small' eels being called 'Mini-Murrays' while having no visible connection with the boss 'Murray', which looks like a dragon and then a shrimp, but never like a giant eel, makes very little sense, it's true. However, if we are to blindly use level names as sources for creatures names (which I'm not sure we should do, remember the 'Mocking bird' discussion), we'll have to cope with it.

In conclusion, this article should either be renamed 'Giant eel' or just 'Eel', but the current name is an abomination. — 18:54, 21 May 2012 (CEST)

I'd prefer to keep the word 'Guardian' in the titles of the bird and eel articles, as it strengthens the connection between them and generally makes the layout of the game's progression clearer. How about 'Guardian Bird' and 'Guardian Eel', or 'Music Guardian' and 'Ocean Guardian'?

I don't see any reason the article should be about the species rather than the individual. As far as I can recall, the giant eel is a unique character, while his small, pink, invincible counterparts are a distinctly different type of enemy. (However, all of this is moot if there are any other gigantic blue eels that I've forgotten.)

The name 'Eel' isn't strictly accurate either, as they're more like lobster centipede monsters than anything else. —Spiraldoor 19:36, 21 May 2012 (CEST)

It is situations like this that I would like that developers concerned a little more in giving names to the creatures. What can I say... I also think the name is unecessairly too long, but I also think that naming just "Eel" would be minorizing the role of the character in the game. If the ingame textures don't give any tips, we must try to find better alternatives. I would call it something close to "Giant Blue Eel". --Haruka 20:31, 21 May 2012 (CEST)

One source that we haven't yet given much attention is the game's audio files, which were ripped by Drolpiraat. In the filenames, the bosses are referred to as 'Mountain Golem', 'Boss Bird', 'Boss Ocean', 'Boss Guardian', 'Ocean Guardian', 'Boss Moray', 'Boss Food', 'Mecha Boss Bird', 'Mecha BPL', and 'Big Mama'. Some of them are obvious, but a few are confusing, and the very short length of the files doesn't help when it comes to identifying them. Maybe some of these could help us in determining a name for each boss? —Spiraldoor 21:08, 21 May 2012 (CEST)

There are, actually, three 'giant eels' in the game: one in Aim for the Eel!, guarding the Sea of Serendipity, and two in Murray of the Deep, chasing Rayman underwater. Hence the need to refer to the species.

As concerns their name, either we take the level names at face value (mocking bird, eel, etc.) or we try to make up coherent names (the music boss doesn't look like a mockingbird, the ocean guardian doesn't look like an eel, etc.), but there's no third way. Since we seem to have chosen the first one, then lobster centipede monsters will be eels.

I like Guardian bird for the music guardian. But what about the ocean guardian? Giant eel, Guardian eel, Giant blue eel? — 22:22, 21 May 2012 (CEST)

Guardian Bird and Guardian Eel, I guess? —Spiraldoor 22:55, 21 May 2012 (CEST)

I'm still saying Giant Blue Eel. --Haruka 00:33, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

It says Giant Eel in the trophy list. --iHeckler9 08:50, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

Come to think about it, that's probably where I got it from. No need to make up a name if there's already one: 'Giant Eel' (should we capitalise the word 'Eel'? grammar says no but the trophy says yes). The other names can be used as redirects. And since we're also discussing the bird, shouldn't it be 'Guardian bird' rather than 'Guardian Bird'? — 11:29, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

I would prefer to capitalise the name 'Giant Eel', as it's the closest thing the character has to a name, and calling him 'Giant eel' or 'giant eel' would stick out like a sore thumb next to all the other character articles on the wiki. Thankfully the trophy gives the 'Giant Eel' spelling a measure of officiality.

However, I don't think we should use the word 'Guardian' in the name of one guardian and not the name of the other. If 'Guardian of the Ocean World' is to be moved to 'Giant Eel', it follows that 'Guardian of the Music World' should be moved to 'Giant Bird' for the sake of consistency – which creates further problems, as there are two giant bird bosses in the game. It's a real mess.

One idea I've been toying with is naming the four main bosses after their benevolent counterparts. Maybe 'Forest King', 'Music King', 'Food King' and 'Ocean King'? Or 'Flower King', 'Bird King', 'Dragon King' and 'Shrimp King'? Just another possibility to consider. —Spiraldoor 18:34, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

iHeckler is right, I didn't remind this. About the bird, I would call it Guardian bird, with the noun non capitalized. --Haruka 12:32, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

There's still a big difference: Giant Eel is a species (one of these arguably being the Guardian eel), while the Guardian bird is an individual (and Giant bird arguably being the species). As concerns the kings, I'd rather choose the second list, but why would we suddenly stop using the names from level names? Damn, Origins sure is a mess to document. — 12:21, 24 May 2012 (CEST)

How did we not think of this before? In the level Murray of the Deep, both the Giant Eel and the Shrimp King appear, so the name Murray could apply to either of them! And since Giant Eels are basically larger versions of Mini-Murrays, it now seems obvious that Murray actually refers to the Giant Eels. — 16:33, 24 May 2012 (CEST)

Maybe the word 'Murray' is actually a plural? That would explain why the level names are 'Beware of Mini-Murray' and 'Murray of the Deep', rather than 'Beware of the Mini-Murrays' and 'Murrays of the Deep'. It could even be that it's both singular and plural, like the word 'sheep' – this would explain the way in which it's used to describe both the individual Murray and the multiple Mini-Murray. —Spiraldoor 17:20, 24 May 2012 (CEST)

Um, isn't "Murray" the name of the boss, rather than the regular enemies? It simply sounds wrong to have the eel species to be "Murray," and I am sure it is not what the developers intended. --technology4617 (talk) 02:58, 24 December 2013 (CET)

Split

I'd like to suggest a split so as to separate Murrays from Mini-Murrays. — 15:48, 15 December 2019 (CET)

Should we have three separate articles then? One for the Giant-Murray (Giant Eel), Murray (the pink medium sized ones), and the Mini-Murray? If so, we'd have to have a disambiguation, so we'd have to decide on what to call the pink ones. -- 22:07, 8 February 2020 (CET)

So, if I'm not mistaken, they come in three sizes:

• the larger ones, of which three appear in Origins (the giant eel in Gourmand Land and the other two that chase the player in Murray of the Deep), and a few more in Legends (the pink ones in Gloo Gloo)
• the smaller ones in Beware of Mini-Murray
• medium-sized ones in Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout, though it's not entirely clear to me if they're actually larger than the previous ones

Maybe clearing this up first would help! — 19:12, 9 February 2020 (CET)

According to what we have in the games, I would say we can create a "Murray (disambiguation)" page, and the following pages:

• Giant Murray, which have blue skin and blue shell (Aim for the Eel! and Murray of the Deep) or pink spiky shell (Gloo Gloo)
• Murray, which have blue skin and pink spiky shell (Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout in Origins) or green skin and purple spiky shell (Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout in Back to Origins)
• Mini-Murray, which always have blue skin and pink spiky shell (Beware of Mini-Murray)
• Mecha Mini-Murray, which appear in some levels of Legends --Boomboleros7 00:27, 10 February 2020 (CET)

I have the impression that even among the second category, they come in different sizes. See here in Scuba Shootout and there in Fire When Wetty, isn't the first one significantly larger? — 09:26, 10 February 2020 (CET)

Oh... Maybe we should consider every murrays as giant murrays, except the ones in Beware of Mini-Murray?

We can turn this "Murray" page into the disambiguation page, like on the French wiki --Boomboleros7 08:53, 11 February 2020 (CET)

This page was originally about the giant eels, so it should be used for the larger murrays now (and we can create a new one for disambiguation). As for medium-sized murrays, they're spiky like all mini-murrays (though some giant ones are too), and some are closer to their size, while others appear to be closer to that of the giant ones. And they're purple in Legends for some reason. Yeah, it's a tricky one! — 12:53, 13 February 2020 (CET)

So we know we'll have this article for giant murrays, another article for mini-murrays, another for the mecha murrays, and a disambiguation. This will be similar to the French wiki, does this work for now? -- 14:55, 16 February 2020 (CET)

This makes sense, the only question is where to draw the line between murrays and mini-murrays, as they appear to come in quite a variety of sizes. This is a bit arbitrary but I think your suggestion is good. — 12:42, 20 February 2020 (CET)

I never got around to this, but yeah, I'm not too sure where we should draw the line on those either, this part is rather confusing. -- 23:09, 14 May 2020 (CEST)

After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to divide the Murrays into a reasonable number of subspecies without making completely arbitrary decisions as to which Murray belongs to which kind. Almost all of them differ in size, color, behavior and other attributes and it is therefore preferable to have one large, comprehensive article rather than confusing subdivisions. I have merged articles on the French, Polish and Russian wikis to reflect this. — 15:26, 23 September 2024 (CEST)