Talk:Barrel Pirate: Difference between revisions

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::::::::::Whoops. I'll get on it as soon as possible. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 18:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

All right, there hasn't been much progress lately, so [http://www.raymanpc.com/Img/barrelpiratelifebars.png here is an interesting contribution.] This image shows the life bar of a Barrel Pirate in Revolution after each shot, from 1 to 13 damage, taken from an emulator for added precision, with a resolution of 800 × 600. A very annoying problem is that I haven't found a way to play the game in its native resolution, which implies a resizing and therefore a blurring of the image, making it much harder to count the pixels in the life bar. At first, the great disparities in the number of pixels taken by each shot (ranging from 24 to 28) led me to think there were rebounds involved, as PCSX2 is so slow on my poor computer I can hardly see what's happening in the game, and I kept this data to myself for a while. However, a second try today led to the very same results, making it clear that no rebounding shots had been polluting this information. Even more interesting, the average number of pixels taken by a yellow shot, obtained from this data sample, is exactly 26. The size of the life bar being approximately 344 pixels, this leads us to a value of 13.23… HP, which is extremely close to 119/9 (the smallest known and most likely basic unit of damage in Revolution being the white shot, with 1/9 hit point). My computer is not powerful enough to run CheatEngine scans on PCSX2, and this is probably the best we can do so far. A verification would be welcome though, and while I can't think of any way to check whether 13 yellow shots and 2 white shots are enough to defeat a Barrel Pirate, it should be possible to make sure that 13 yellow shots and 1 blue shot (equivalent to 13 yellow shots and 3 white shots) do the job in the first corridor of the last section of the Echoing Caves (the part that was taken from the Top of the World): in [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd7-TsqT2vM this video], we can see that it is possible to get a yellow shot to rebound orthogonally as a blue shot and hit the pirate as well, therefore all you would have to do is shoot 12 times with no rebound and once with a rebound, which is made even easier with the cheat code allowing to deactivate Rayman's powers Spiral reminded us of in the [[Talk:Boss Chenille|Boss Chenille talk page]]. So, can I count on you guys this time? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 23:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

:Waitaminute-I remember having a discussion with Haruka and Spiraldoor about how a keg full on kills it instantly, while a keg from the back does three damage. Could this work the same way with our shots? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

:Waitaminute-I remember having a discussion with Haruka and Spiraldoor about how a keg full on kills it instantly, while a keg from the back does three damage. Could this work the same way with our shots? EDIT: http://img140.imageshack.us/i/dscf1276q.jpg/ Does that help, Humch? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

::You can try shooting a Barrel Pirate in the back but I doubt there will be much difference. As concerns your snapshot, this is after a fully charged shot with a power fist, and no rebounds were involved, right? It's clearly about 9 HP, which is weird; did you have Accumulation 2 enabled? Maybe it does not only increase the fire range but also make the shot more powerful... I've never quite understood this power. Not to forget the most important, '''I need someone to check whether THIRTEEN YELLOW SHOTS AND ONE BLUE SHOT are enough to defeat a Barrel Pirate!''' (see details above) Thank you for your help. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 18:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

:::Fully charged shot with a Power Fist and Acc. 1, no rebounds involved. I read somewhere in the manual that Acc. 2 hits 'with the impact of an exploding grenade that damages all enemies in its radius'. I've seen it happen before: in the Tomb of the Ancients, in the part with the 1000th Lum, both Pirates were damaged by a shot I did with Acc. 2. Thirteen yellow and one blue, eh? Seems easy enough. I'll be back in a jiffy. EDIT: With thirteen yellow shots he was down to very low health. A blue shot would have definitely killed it. Sadly, there are no more enemies so the rebounds don't work. With fourteen yellow shots, however, the beast was dead. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 11:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

::::Maybe such a shot inflicts 9 damage in Revolution, compared to 6 in the other versions... We should try it out on Clark or a generator anyway, thank you for this information. But as concerns the Barrel Pirate's resistance, we've known for a while how many yellow shots were needed to take them down; check the video I posted above at 0:12, it is possible to get a yellow shot to hit it, then rebound orthogonally as a blue shot and hit it again. By using the same technique and then disabling the rebound to make sure it doesn't happen again, you should be able to do thirteen yellow and one blue. ;) —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 13:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

:::Would anyone mind taking care of this and do this extremely simple verification? Thank you. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 19:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

::::It's almost as if I'm the only one with Revolution here. Alright, I'll try my hardest. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

:::::Haruka and Stacey have it too; I'm not sure about Spiral. Thank you for volunteering AGAIN... —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:25, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

::::::I have a copy, but my PS3 is not currently working very well and my laptop can't emulate the PS2. That's why most of my recent contributions have come from the N64 version. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 12:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

:::::::I've tried a playthrough on Rayman Revolution for the PS3 and have found it is [http://www.raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5030&p=557516#p557516 impossible to beat]. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

::::::::Not impossible but extremely difficult. I assume you're referring to the minecart which leads to the Pirate Mines? Just keep trying and after a few dozen attempts you should be able to make Rayman jump out of the cart and into the level. I've done it twice. Sometimes pausing the game and randomly scrolling through the options seems to help; I did this both of the times I managed to get into the level, but it may have been a coincidence. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 15:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

:::I am very sorry to repeat myself, but would anyone take a couple minutes to do this extremely simple verification we've been waiting for for weeks? Thank you in advance. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 14:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

==Resuming...==

Sorry for the massive delay but I've been replaying RR in my PlayStation 2, this time trying to beat the game without power upgrades, except that I'm doing Ly's Challenges. I remember that something had to be done in the Barrel Pirate correspondent to the Top of the World fragment. I wonder if the same applies to the one of Whale Bay. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 11:37, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

:Thirteen yellow and one blue. EVERYTHING is written above. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:40, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

::Sorry for making you upset ^^'. Hmmm, in this case I must buy the Rebound 1. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 11:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

:::It's fine, I just didn't feel like writing it all again. ;) Thanks for volunteering Haruka. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

::::I know, but it is also silly from me to not read a big wall of text 'XD. I'll try to get results during this week. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 14:37, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

::::OK, I have only one problem: it isn't easy to force a blue energy sphere hitting him in the last strike (I'm trying this out in Whale Bay by the way). Is it possible to downgrade the fist with cheat codes? --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 18:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

:::::If it was, any enemy's resistance could be determined straight away and we wouldn't have to do all this. But why Whale Bay? I asked you guys to try this in the corridor in the Echoing Caves (once again, it's all written above); I even linked to a video of yours in which you managed to get the said rebound. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 21:46, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

::::::Hunch, I think I can confirm that the Barrel Pirate is killed with 13 yellow shots and 1 blue shot. I've just tried this and worked. :) --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Thanks a lot, Haruka! We are now 100% sure that they have either 13.111… or 13.222… HP. According to my calculations above, the exact value has to be 13.222…, so there is nothing to change. Have you tried running a CheatEngine scan on PCSX2 by the way? Unfortunately my computer is way too old for that. :( —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::::I didn't. And actually I never used it so I have no idea how to do it... ^^' --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 20:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::Have you downloaded it already? :o —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 17:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::Not yet. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 17:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 ::::::::::Whoops. I'll get on it as soon as possible. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 18:45, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
 All right, there hasn't been much progress lately, so [http://www.raymanpc.com/Img/barrelpiratelifebars.png here is an interesting contribution.] This image shows the life bar of a Barrel Pirate in Revolution after each shot, from 1 to 13 damage, taken from an emulator for added precision, with a resolution of 800 × 600. A very annoying problem is that I haven't found a way to play the game in its native resolution, which implies a resizing and therefore a blurring of the image, making it much harder to count the pixels in the life bar. At first, the great disparities in the number of pixels taken by each shot (ranging from 24 to 28) led me to think there were rebounds involved, as PCSX2 is so slow on my poor computer I can hardly see what's happening in the game, and I kept this data to myself for a while. However, a second try today led to the very same results, making it clear that no rebounding shots had been polluting this information. Even more interesting, the average number of pixels taken by a yellow shot, obtained from this data sample, is exactly 26. The size of the life bar being approximately 344 pixels, this leads us to a value of 13.23… HP, which is extremely close to 119/9 (the smallest known and most likely basic unit of damage in Revolution being the white shot, with 1/9 hit point). My computer is not powerful enough to run CheatEngine scans on PCSX2, and this is probably the best we can do so far. A verification would be welcome though, and while I can't think of any way to check whether 13 yellow shots and 2 white shots are enough to defeat a Barrel Pirate, it should be possible to make sure that 13 yellow shots and 1 blue shot (equivalent to 13 yellow shots and 3 white shots) do the job in the first corridor of the last section of the Echoing Caves (the part that was taken from the Top of the World): in [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd7-TsqT2vM this video], we can see that it is possible to get a yellow shot to rebound orthogonally as a blue shot and hit the pirate as well, therefore all you would have to do is shoot 12 times with no rebound and once with a rebound, which is made even easier with the cheat code allowing to deactivate Rayman's powers Spiral reminded us of in the [[Talk:Boss Chenille|Boss Chenille talk page]]. So, can I count on you guys this time? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 23:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
-:Waitaminute-I remember having a discussion with Haruka and Spiraldoor about how a keg full on kills it instantly, while a keg from the back does three damage. Could this work the same way with our shots? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
+:Waitaminute-I remember having a discussion with Haruka and Spiraldoor about how a keg full on kills it instantly, while a keg from the back does three damage. Could this work the same way with our shots? EDIT: http://img140.imageshack.us/i/dscf1276q.jpg/ Does that help, Humch? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
+::You can try shooting a Barrel Pirate in the back but I doubt there will be much difference. As concerns your snapshot, this is after a fully charged shot with a power fist, and no rebounds were involved, right? It's clearly about 9 HP, which is weird; did you have Accumulation 2 enabled? Maybe it does not only increase the fire range but also make the shot more powerful... I've never quite understood this power. Not to forget the most important, '''I need someone to check whether THIRTEEN YELLOW SHOTS AND ONE BLUE SHOT are enough to defeat a Barrel Pirate!''' (see details above) Thank you for your help. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 18:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
+:::Fully charged shot with a Power Fist and Acc. 1, no rebounds involved. I read somewhere in the manual that Acc. 2 hits 'with the impact of an exploding grenade that damages all enemies in its radius'. I've seen it happen before: in the Tomb of the Ancients, in the part with the 1000th Lum, both Pirates were damaged by a shot I did with Acc. 2. Thirteen yellow and one blue, eh? Seems easy enough. I'll be back in a jiffy. EDIT: With thirteen yellow shots he was down to very low health. A blue shot would have definitely killed it. Sadly, there are no more enemies so the rebounds don't work. With fourteen yellow shots, however, the beast was dead. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 11:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
+::::Maybe such a shot inflicts 9 damage in Revolution, compared to 6 in the other versions... We should try it out on Clark or a generator anyway, thank you for this information. But as concerns the Barrel Pirate's resistance, we've known for a while how many yellow shots were needed to take them down; check the video I posted above at 0:12, it is possible to get a yellow shot to hit it, then rebound orthogonally as a blue shot and hit it again. By using the same technique and then disabling the rebound to make sure it doesn't happen again, you should be able to do thirteen yellow and one blue. ;) —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 13:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
+:::Would anyone mind taking care of this and do this extremely simple verification? Thank you. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 19:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
+::::It's almost as if I'm the only one with Revolution here. Alright, I'll try my hardest. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
+:::::Haruka and Stacey have it too; I'm not sure about Spiral. Thank you for volunteering AGAIN... —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:25, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
+::::::I have a copy, but my PS3 is not currently working very well and my laptop can't emulate the PS2. That's why most of my recent contributions have come from the N64 version. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 12:40, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::I've tried a playthrough on Rayman Revolution for the PS3 and have found it is [http://www.raymanpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5030&p=557516#p557516 impossible to beat]. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 07:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::Not impossible but extremely difficult. I assume you're referring to the minecart which leads to the Pirate Mines? Just keep trying and after a few dozen attempts you should be able to make Rayman jump out of the cart and into the level. I've done it twice. Sometimes pausing the game and randomly scrolling through the options seems to help; I did this both of the times I managed to get into the level, but it may have been a coincidence. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 15:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
+:::I am very sorry to repeat myself, but would anyone take a couple minutes to do this extremely simple verification we've been waiting for for weeks? Thank you in advance. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 14:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
+==Resuming...==
+Sorry for the massive delay but I've been replaying RR in my PlayStation 2, this time trying to beat the game without power upgrades, except that I'm doing Ly's Challenges. I remember that something had to be done in the Barrel Pirate correspondent to the Top of the  World fragment. I wonder if the same applies to the one of Whale Bay. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 11:37, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+:Thirteen yellow and one blue. EVERYTHING is written above. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:40, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+::Sorry for making you upset ^^'. Hmmm, in this case I must buy the Rebound 1. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 11:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+:::It's fine, I just didn't feel like writing it all again. ;) Thanks for volunteering Haruka. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+::::I know, but it is also silly from me to not read a big wall of text 'XD. I'll try to get results during this week. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 14:37, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+::::OK, I have only one problem: it isn't easy to force a blue energy sphere hitting him in the last strike (I'm trying this out in Whale Bay by the way). Is it possible to downgrade the fist with cheat codes? --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 18:21, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+:::::If it was, any enemy's resistance could be determined straight away and we wouldn't have to do all this. But why Whale Bay? I asked you guys to try this in the corridor in the Echoing Caves (once again, it's all written above); I even linked to a video of yours in which you managed to get the said rebound. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 21:46, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
+::::::Hunch, I think I can confirm that the Barrel Pirate is killed with 13 yellow shots and 1 blue shot. I've just tried this and worked. :) --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:23, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::Thanks a lot, Haruka! We are now 100% sure that they have either 13.111… or 13.222… HP. According to my calculations above, the exact value has to be 13.222…, so there is nothing to change. Have you tried running a CheatEngine scan on PCSX2 by the way? Unfortunately my computer is way too old for that. :( —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::I didn't. And actually I never used it so I have no idea how to do it... ^^' --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 20:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::::Have you downloaded it already? :o —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 17:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::::Not yet. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 17:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)