Talk:Rayman: Difference between revisions

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==Name of species==

Why did you changed his specie back to unknown ?... It's called a thingamajig. And he acts more stupid so why remove it ? It isn't cool to just delete text were someone worked on without a reason (like my Rayman Origins part of Globox and Teensie.)- Frenkystijn

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:'''Stick to Mainline''' - I'm also in favour, Carrot's rationale is pretty much in line with my own thoughts. [[User:Master|Master]] ([[User talk:Master|talk]]) 23:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

::I would add the most recent in-game appearance (''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.]]'' doesn't count, because of the outfit). That's why I'm thinking a [[Rayman]] image from ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'': ''[[Rayman in the Phantom Show]]''.

::I would add the most recent in-game appearance (''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.]]'' doesn't count, because of the outfit). That's why I'm thinking a [[Rayman]] image from ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'': ''[[Rayman in the Phantom Show]]''. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|08:27, 24 December 2024 (CEST)}}

:::''Brawlhalla'', ''Captain Laserhawk'', and ''Sparks of Hope'' are guest interpretations of Rayman that I don't think best represent the base version of the character. ''Brawlhalla'' is a simplification of the ''Legends'' style, ''Captain Laserhawk'' is a reimagining with a different backstory, and ''Sparks of Hope'' is another ''Rabbids'' game featuring Rayman. Since Rayman's ''Sparks of Hope'' design was tailored to the ''Mario + Rabbids'' art direction (e.g. [https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/065/689/656/4k/giacomo-boni-shk-cnp-dlc03-operanetwork-chr-rayman-back.jpg softer hair]), it's not certain if we'll see it again. Based on the recent merchandise, Ubisoft still considers ''Legends'' the default aesthetic for the Rayman universe. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 18:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

::::Does "''Captain Laserhawk''" refer to both ''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|the G.A.M.E.]]'' and [[Captain Laserhawk: A Blood Dragon Remix|the anime]]? In [[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|the G.A.M.E.]], [[Rayman]] is the main character (more like Captain Dolph Laserhawk: the downloadable version's icon is also a [[Rayman]] head, most of the images from ''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|the G.A.M.E.]]'' depict [[Rayman]], and he is in the middle of the "''main image''", and he was also seen as '''a''' main character in [https://www.gamereactor.eu/video/715793/Captain+Laserhawk+The+GAME+-+Game+Trailer/ the trailer]), although his outfit does not match the usual [[Rayman]] outfit. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|16:30, 25 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}

:::::Both, the game is just an adaptation of the show. ''Laserhawk'' Rayman is still far detached from the mainline games. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 17:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::I agree with Mystyle's and Carrot's points. As much as I like the DLC's design, I think it is more logical to stick to the mainline one. - [[User:Fussilli|Fussilli]] ([[User talk:Fussilli|talk]]) 19:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::::In ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'', only added a pocket to [[Rayman]]. Otherwise, [[Rayman]] looks pretty much the same as in [[Rayman (series)|the games]]. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|17:19, 27 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}

::::::::''Sparks of Hope'' also redesigned Rayman's shoes, gave him caramel-colored eyes, and as I mentioned, made his hair softer and thicker. But even if the changes to Rayman's design in crossovers aren't major, I still believe it's best to stick with what is presented by the main series (''Legends'' and beyond), without the alterations made to conform with the art directions of other franchises. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 16:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::::::It appears that the consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of the Legends design for Rayman's main infobox. Let's give it another 3 days to give everyone the opportunity to voice their thoughts, and then we'll proceed with the community's decision. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 17:44, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::::::Well, after much consideration, I think it’s time I threw my hat in the ring. While Rayman’s appearances in ''Brawlhalla'', ''[[Captain Laserhawk: A Blood Dragon Remix|Captain Laserhawk]]'', and the latter’s NFT-laden [[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|game]] can be dismissed as crossovers or cameos, I think his appearance in ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' hits too close to home to be considered a “crossover”. Ignoring the metric ton of references packed into the game’s [[Rayman in the Phantom Show|third DLC]], the fact that the [[Rabbids (series)|Rabbids series]] is a sister franchise to the [[Rayman (series)|Rayman series]] gives the DLC’s redesign a nonexistent leg up over those of his other guest appearances.

::::::::::(Side note: I find it funny that Rayman appearing in a [[Rabbids (series)|Rabbids]] game is seen as a “crossover”, when the [[Rabbid]]s came from a [[Rayman (series)|Rayman]] [[Rayman Raving Rabbids|game]] in the first place. If anything, it feels more like a reunion between franchises; for a random example, it’s like how Diddy Kong, who originated from the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games, shows up in a bunch of ''Mario'' spin-offs, but isn’t seen as a “crossover” character.)

::::::::::As for the point about he, [[Globox]], and [[Barbara]]’s designs in ''Brawlhalla'', they are very, VERY similar to their appearances in the [[UbiArt]] games, with minimal adjustments to keep with the game’s art style. Because of how small these changes are, the designs can and should be dismissed from consideration; as for [[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope|Sparks of Hope]]’s design, the changes are not too significant there either, but I think they are just large enough to see it at least as a semi-redesign.

::::::::::Like [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] pointed out, Rayman’s shoes, eye color, and certain aspects of his hair were changed here, in addition to his hoodie gaining pockets and white hood strings. While this alone may not be seen as enough to justify its status above his other guest appearances, another thing to note is that his [[Vortex]] and [[Shock Rocket|Rocket]] [[Laser-Washing Powder|combat fatigues]] received complete redesigns here, much farther leaps from their last appearances (though they were last seen in 2003’s ''[[Rayman 3]]'', so they were due for a glow up) than Rayman’s normal form in the DLC. Rayman’s [[blaster]] could also be seen as a redesign for his [[plunger]] gun, but I don’t exactly see it that way.

::::::::::Finally, while [[Ubisoft]] has used Rayman’s appearance in the [[UbiArt]] games for other content, like [[Rayman: The Board Game|the board game]] and the Youtooz stuff, I think that’s because ''[[Rayman Legends]]'' is the last mainline game in the [[Rayman (series)|series]] (as of writing this), so it’s a natural pick for content outside of the games. Overall, I think that Rayman’s [[Rayman in the Phantom Show|Phantom Show]] design should be used for the thumbnail, for the reasons I explained above. But if his [[Rayman Legends|Legends]] design is used, I’m okay with that too; at the end of the day, it’s just a picture. Well, I spent way too long stating my case, so I’m gonna go now. Bye! -RayGamer99

:::::::::::It's true that [[Rayman]] in ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' had some changes. But not without reason: since the previous games were in the style of the [[UbiArt]] game engine, the appearance of the characters in them was simplified. In ''[[Rayman 3|Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc]]'', there was more detail in [[Rayman]]'s appearance than in ''[[Rayman Legends]]'', but even the game's remake, ''[[Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition]]'', was not more detailed than the original ''[[Rayman Legends]]''. Another reason is that the change in eye color was just an adaptation to the style of the [https://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Mario_(franchise) ''Super Mario'' franchise]. Since the previous 3D ''[[Rayman (series)|Rayman]]'' games were old, it would not have been a good idea for Ubisoft to use that style. His shoes look like they did in the [[Rayman 1|first ''Rayman'' game]] (but since ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' is not an old-style 2D pixel game, they had to be changed a bit to have more details). As for the hood strings: the [https://www.mariowiki.com/Mushroom_Kingdom Mushroom Kingdom] (and the locations in the same world) were mixed with [[Glade of Dreams|Dimension X]], so both [[UbiArt]] and non-[[UbiArt]] coppers were included. You had to decide between red or purple hood strings. [[Ubisoft]] seems to have used new hood strings design instead.

:::::::::::''Sparks of Hope'' has undeniably brought Rayman back into the public eye, and is likely the reason Ubisoft is now investigating a proper new game. But chances are that ''Sparks of Hope'''s soft redesign is a one-time thing, akin to Crash Bandicoot's appearance in ''Skylanders'' before the ''N. Sane Trilogy'' and ''Crash 4'' or Mega Man's appearance in ''Super Smash Bros.'' before ''Mega Man 11''. I called ''Sparks of Hope'' a "crossover" because Ubisoft considers ''Rabbids'' its own franchise since ''Rabbids Go Home'', and following that there have been no Rayman appearances in ''Rabbids'' media up until the DLC. It's similar to how the ''Half-Life'' and ''Portal'' franchises actually take place in the same universe, but have a very thin connection otherwise aside from a plot device shared between ''Half-Life 2: Episode 2'' and ''Portal 2'' and supplementary lore revealed in developer interviews. I think prioritizing the main ''Rayman'' series itself for visual representations of characters is more preferable than trying to justify which appearances in other franchises are "close enough" to be used instead, regardless of scope. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 07:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::::::::Is this the last day to decide the final infobox image? {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|15:32, 29 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}

:::::::::::::I'm counting 4 votes for Legends and 2 for Phantom Show so I say we change the article to use the former for now and keep the discussion open to gather more votes and attempt to reach a wider consensus. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 00:11, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::::::::::I replaced the [[Rayman]] image of ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'': ''[[Rayman in the Phantom Show]]'' with the victory image from ''[[Rayman Legends]]'' and ''[[Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition]]'' due to the votes. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|14:46, 31 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}

== Structure of game appearances ==

I think that, instead of a nested structure with spin-off appearances inside the section for the main game, a flat structure in purely chronological order would be more intuitive and easier to navigate. Additionally, does Retold really count as a spin-off of Legends? As a remake, I'm not sure it belongs in the same category as Jungle Run, Fiesta Run and Mini. This also applies to other articles featuring this nested structure, for example [[Globox]], [[Polokus]] and [[Grand Minimus]].

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-________
+==Name of species==
 Why did you changed his specie back to unknown ?... It's called a thingamajig. And he acts more stupid so why remove it ? It isn't cool to just delete text were someone worked on without a reason (like my Rayman Origins part of Globox and Teensie.)- Frenkystijn
@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 :'''Stick to Mainline''' - I'm also in favour, Carrot's rationale is pretty much in line with my own thoughts. [[User:Master|Master]] ([[User talk:Master|talk]]) 23:23, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
-::I would add the most recent in-game appearance (''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.]]'' doesn't count, because of the outfit). That's why I'm thinking a [[Rayman]] image from ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'': ''[[Rayman in the Phantom Show]]''.
+::I would add the most recent in-game appearance (''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.]]'' doesn't count, because of the outfit). That's why I'm thinking a [[Rayman]] image from ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'': ''[[Rayman in the Phantom Show]]''. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|08:27, 24 December 2024 (CEST)}}
-{{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|07:27, 24 December 2024}}
+:::''Brawlhalla'', ''Captain Laserhawk'', and ''Sparks of Hope'' are guest interpretations of Rayman that I don't think best represent the base version of the character. ''Brawlhalla'' is a simplification of the ''Legends'' style, ''Captain Laserhawk'' is a reimagining with a different backstory, and ''Sparks of Hope'' is another ''Rabbids'' game featuring Rayman. Since Rayman's ''Sparks of Hope'' design was tailored to the ''Mario + Rabbids'' art direction (e.g. [https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/065/689/656/4k/giacomo-boni-shk-cnp-dlc03-operanetwork-chr-rayman-back.jpg softer hair]), it's not certain if we'll see it again. Based on the recent merchandise, Ubisoft still considers ''Legends'' the default aesthetic for the Rayman universe. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 18:32, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
+::::Does "''Captain Laserhawk''" refer to both ''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|the G.A.M.E.]]'' and [[Captain Laserhawk: A Blood Dragon Remix|the anime]]? In [[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|the G.A.M.E.]], [[Rayman]] is the main character (more like Captain Dolph Laserhawk: the downloadable version's icon is also a [[Rayman]] head, most of the images from ''[[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|the G.A.M.E.]]'' depict [[Rayman]], and he is in the middle of the "''main image''", and he was also seen as '''a''' main character in [https://www.gamereactor.eu/video/715793/Captain+Laserhawk+The+GAME+-+Game+Trailer/ the trailer]), although his outfit does not match the usual [[Rayman]] outfit. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|16:30, 25 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}
+:::::Both, the game is just an adaptation of the show. ''Laserhawk'' Rayman is still far detached from the mainline games. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 17:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
+::::::I agree with Mystyle's and Carrot's points. As much as I like the DLC's design, I think it is more logical to stick to the mainline one. - [[User:Fussilli|Fussilli]] ([[User talk:Fussilli|talk]]) 19:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
+:::::::In ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'', only added a pocket to [[Rayman]]. Otherwise, [[Rayman]] looks pretty much the same as in [[Rayman (series)|the games]]. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|17:19, 27 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}
+::::::::''Sparks of Hope'' also redesigned Rayman's shoes, gave him caramel-colored eyes, and as I mentioned, made his hair softer and thicker. But even if the changes to Rayman's design in crossovers aren't major, I still believe it's best to stick with what is presented by the main series (''Legends'' and beyond), without the alterations made to conform with the art directions of other franchises. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 16:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
+:::::::::It appears that the consensus is overwhelmingly in favor of the Legends design for Rayman's main infobox. Let's give it another 3 days to give everyone the opportunity to voice their thoughts, and then we'll proceed with the community's decision. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 17:44, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
+::::::::::Well, after much consideration, I think it’s time I threw my hat in the ring. While Rayman’s appearances in ''Brawlhalla'', ''[[Captain Laserhawk: A Blood Dragon Remix|Captain Laserhawk]]'', and the latter’s NFT-laden [[Captain Laserhawk: the G.A.M.E.|game]] can be dismissed as crossovers or cameos, I think his appearance in ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' hits too close to home to be considered a “crossover”. Ignoring the metric ton of references packed into the game’s [[Rayman in the Phantom Show|third DLC]], the fact that the [[Rabbids (series)|Rabbids series]] is a sister franchise to the [[Rayman (series)|Rayman series]] gives the DLC’s redesign a nonexistent leg up over those of his other guest appearances.
+::::::::::(Side note: I find it funny that Rayman appearing in a [[Rabbids (series)|Rabbids]] game is seen as a “crossover”, when the [[Rabbid]]s came from a [[Rayman (series)|Rayman]] [[Rayman Raving Rabbids|game]] in the first place. If anything, it feels more like a reunion between franchises; for a random example, it’s like how Diddy Kong, who originated from the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games, shows up in a bunch of ''Mario'' spin-offs, but isn’t seen as a “crossover” character.)
+::::::::::As for the point about he, [[Globox]], and [[Barbara]]’s designs in ''Brawlhalla'', they are very, VERY similar to their appearances in the [[UbiArt]] games, with minimal adjustments to keep with the game’s art style. Because of how small these changes are, the designs can and should be dismissed from consideration; as for [[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope|Sparks of Hope]]’s design, the changes are not too significant there either, but I think they are just large enough to see it at least as a semi-redesign.
+::::::::::Like [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] pointed out, Rayman’s shoes, eye color, and certain aspects of his hair were changed here, in addition to his hoodie gaining pockets and white hood strings. While this alone may not be seen as enough to justify its status above his other guest appearances, another thing to note is that his [[Vortex]] and [[Shock Rocket|Rocket]] [[Laser-Washing Powder|combat fatigues]] received complete redesigns here, much farther leaps from their last appearances (though they were last seen in 2003’s ''[[Rayman 3]]'', so they were due for a glow up) than Rayman’s normal form in the DLC. Rayman’s [[blaster]] could also be seen as a redesign for his [[plunger]] gun, but I don’t exactly see it that way.
+::::::::::Finally, while [[Ubisoft]] has used Rayman’s appearance in the [[UbiArt]] games for other content, like [[Rayman: The Board Game|the board game]] and the Youtooz stuff, I think that’s because ''[[Rayman Legends]]'' is the last mainline game in the [[Rayman (series)|series]] (as of writing this), so it’s a natural pick for content outside of the games. Overall, I think that Rayman’s [[Rayman in the Phantom Show|Phantom Show]] design should be used for the thumbnail, for the reasons I explained above. But if his [[Rayman Legends|Legends]] design is used, I’m okay with that too; at the end of the day, it’s just a picture. Well, I spent way too long stating my case, so I’m gonna go now. Bye! -RayGamer99
+:::::::::::It's true that [[Rayman]] in ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' had some changes. But not without reason: since the previous games were in the style of the [[UbiArt]] game engine, the appearance of the characters in them was simplified. In ''[[Rayman 3|Rayman 3: Hoodlum Havoc]]'', there was more detail in [[Rayman]]'s appearance than in ''[[Rayman Legends]]'', but even the game's remake, ''[[Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition]]'', was not more detailed than the original ''[[Rayman Legends]]''. Another reason is that the change in eye color was just an adaptation to the style of the [https://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Mario_(franchise) ''Super Mario'' franchise]. Since the previous 3D ''[[Rayman (series)|Rayman]]'' games were old, it would not have been a good idea for Ubisoft to use that style. His shoes look like they did in the [[Rayman 1|first ''Rayman'' game]] (but since ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'' is not an old-style 2D pixel game, they had to be changed a bit to have more details). As for the hood strings: the [https://www.mariowiki.com/Mushroom_Kingdom Mushroom Kingdom] (and the locations in the same world) were mixed with [[Glade of Dreams|Dimension X]], so both [[UbiArt]] and non-[[UbiArt]] coppers were included. You had to decide between red or purple hood strings. [[Ubisoft]] seems to have used new hood strings design instead.
+:::::::::::''Sparks of Hope'' has undeniably brought Rayman back into the public eye, and is likely the reason Ubisoft is now investigating a proper new game. But chances are that ''Sparks of Hope'''s soft redesign is a one-time thing, akin to Crash Bandicoot's appearance in ''Skylanders'' before the ''N. Sane Trilogy'' and ''Crash 4'' or Mega Man's appearance in ''Super Smash Bros.'' before ''Mega Man 11''. I called ''Sparks of Hope'' a "crossover" because Ubisoft considers ''Rabbids'' its own franchise since ''Rabbids Go Home'', and following that there have been no Rayman appearances in ''Rabbids'' media up until the DLC. It's similar to how the ''Half-Life'' and ''Portal'' franchises actually take place in the same universe, but have a very thin connection otherwise aside from a plot device shared between ''Half-Life 2: Episode 2'' and ''Portal 2'' and supplementary lore revealed in developer interviews. I think prioritizing the main ''Rayman'' series itself for visual representations of characters is more preferable than trying to justify which appearances in other franchises are "close enough" to be used instead, regardless of scope. [[User:Mystyle48|Mystyle48]] ([[User talk:Mystyle48|talk]]) 07:17, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
+::::::::::::Is this the last day to decide the final infobox image? {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|15:32, 29 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}
+:::::::::::::I'm counting 4 votes for Legends and 2 for Phantom Show so I say we change the article to use the former for now and keep the discussion open to gather more votes and attempt to reach a wider consensus. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 00:11, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
+::::::::::::::I replaced the [[Rayman]] image of ''[[Mario + Rabbids Sparks of Hope]]'': ''[[Rayman in the Phantom Show]]'' with the victory image from ''[[Rayman Legends]]'' and ''[[Rayman Legends: Definitive Edition]]'' due to the votes. {{Unsigned|Teensies in globox|14:46, 31 December 2024‎ (CEST)}}
+== Structure of game appearances ==
+I think that, instead of a nested structure with spin-off appearances inside the section for the main game, a flat structure in purely chronological order would be more intuitive and easier to navigate. Additionally, does Retold really count as a spin-off of Legends? As a remake, I'm not sure it belongs in the same category as Jungle Run, Fiesta Run and Mini. This also applies to other articles featuring this nested structure, for example [[Globox]], [[Polokus]] and [[Grand Minimus]].
+What do you think? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 09:54, 7 June 2026 (UTC)