Talk:Murray: Difference between revisions

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::::It says Giant Eel in the trophy list. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 08:50, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

:::::Come to think about it, that's probably where I got it from. No need to make up a name if there's already one: 'Giant Eel' (should we capitalise the word 'Eel'? grammar says no but the trophy says yes). The other names can be used as redirects. And since we're also discussing the bird, shouldn't it be 'Guardian bird' rather than 'Guardian Bird'? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:29, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

::::::I would prefer to capitalise the name 'Giant Eel', as it's the closest thing the character has to a name, and calling him 'Giant eel' or 'giant eel' would stick out like a sore thumb next to all the other character articles on the wiki. Thankfully the trophy gives the 'Giant Eel' spelling a measure of officiality.

::::::However, I don't think we should use the word 'Guardian' in the name of one guardian and not the name of the other. If 'Guardian of the Ocean World' is to be moved to 'Giant Eel', it follows that 'Guardian of the Music World' should be moved to 'Giant Bird' for the sake of consistency – which creates further problems, as there are two giant bird bosses in the game. It's a real mess.

::::::One idea I've been toying with is naming the four main bosses after their benevolent counterparts. Maybe 'Forest King', 'Music King', 'Food King' and 'Ocean King'? Or 'Flower King', 'Bird King', 'Dragon King' and 'Shrimp King'? Just another possibility to consider. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 18:34, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

:::::::iHeckler is right, I didn't remind this. About the bird, I would call it Guardian bird, with the noun non capitalized. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 12:32, 22 May 2012 (CEST)

::::::::There's still a big difference: Giant Eel is a species (one of these arguably being the Guardian eel), while the Guardian bird is an individual (and Giant bird arguably being the species). As concerns the kings, I'd rather choose the second list, but why would we suddenly stop using the names from level names? Damn, Origins sure is a mess to document. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 12:21, 24 May 2012 (CEST)

::::::::How did we not think of this before? In the level Murray of the Deep, both the Giant Eel and the Shrimp King appear, so the name Murray could apply to either of them! And since Giant Eels are basically larger versions of Mini-Murrays, it now seems obvious that Murray actually refers to the Giant Eels. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 16:33, 24 May 2012 (CEST)

:::::::::Maybe the word 'Murray' is actually a plural? That would explain why the level names are 'Beware of Mini-Murray' and 'Murray of the Deep', rather than 'Beware of the Mini-Murrays' and 'Murrays of the Deep'. It could even be that it's both singular and plural, like the word 'sheep' – this would explain the way in which it's used to describe both the individual Murray and the multiple Mini-Murray. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 17:20, 24 May 2012 (CEST)

Um, isn't "Murray" the name of the boss, rather than the regular enemies? It simply sounds wrong to have the eel species to be "Murray," and I am sure it is not what the developers intended. --[[User:Technology4617|technology4617]] ([[User talk:Technology4617|talk]]) 02:58, 24 December 2013 (CET)

== Split ==

:Should we have three separate articles then? One for the Giant-Murray (Giant Eel), Murray (the pink medium sized ones), and the Mini-Murray? If so, we'd have to have a disambiguation, so we'd have to decide on what to call the pink ones. --[[File:Steo_sig.png|60px|link=User:Steo]] 22:07, 8 February 2020 (CET)

::So, if I'm not mistaken, they come in three sizes:

::*the larger ones, of which three appear in Origins (the giant eel in Gourmand Land and the other two that chase the player in Murray of the Deep), and a few more in Legends (the pink ones in [[Gloo Gloo]])

::*the smaller ones in Beware of Mini-Murray

::*medium-sized ones in Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout, though it's not entirely clear to me if they're actually larger than the previous ones

:::According to what we have in the games, I would say we can create a "Murray (disambiguation)" page, and the following pages:

:::*Giant Murray, which have blue skin and blue shell (Aim for the Eel! and Murray of the Deep) or pink spiky shell (Gloo Gloo)

:::*Murray, which have blue skin and pink spiky shell (Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout in ''Origins'') or green skin and purple spiky shell (Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout in Back to Origins)

:::*Mini-Murray, which always have blue skin and pink spiky shell (Beware of Mini-Murray)

:::*Mecha Mini-Murray, which appear in some levels of ''Legends'' --[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 00:27, 10 February 2020 (CET)

::::I have the impression that even among the second category, they come in different sizes. See [[:File:Scuba Shootout 6.jpg|here in Scuba Shootout]] and [[:File:Fire When Wetty 12.jpg|there in Fire When Wetty]], isn't the first one significantly larger? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 09:26, 10 February 2020 (CET)

:::::Oh... Maybe we should consider every murrays as giant murrays, except the ones in Beware of Mini-Murray?

:::::We can turn this "Murray" page into the disambiguation page, like on the French wiki --[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 08:53, 11 February 2020 (CET)

::::::This page was originally about the giant eels, so it should be used for the larger murrays now (and we can create a new one for disambiguation). As for medium-sized murrays, they're spiky like all mini-murrays (though some giant ones are too), and some are closer to their size, while others appear to be closer to that of the giant ones. And they're purple in Legends for some reason. Yeah, it's a tricky one! —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 12:53, 13 February 2020 (CET)

:::::::So we know we'll have this article for giant murrays, another article for mini-murrays, another for the mecha murrays, and a disambiguation. This will be similar to the French wiki, does this work for now? --[[File:Steo_sig.png|60px|link=User:Steo]] 14:55, 16 February 2020 (CET)

::::::::This makes sense, the only question is where to draw the line between murrays and mini-murrays, as they appear to come in quite a variety of sizes. This is a bit arbitrary but I think your suggestion is good. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 12:42, 20 February 2020 (CET)

:::::::::I never got around to this, but yeah, I'm not too sure where we should draw the line on those either, this part is rather confusing. --[[File:Steo_sig.png|60px|link=User:Steo]] 23:09, 14 May 2020 (CEST)

::::::::::After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to divide the Murrays into a reasonable number of subspecies without making completely arbitrary decisions as to which Murray belongs to which kind. Almost all of them differ in size, color, behavior and other attributes and it is therefore preferable to have one large, comprehensive article rather than confusing subdivisions. I have merged articles on the French, Polish and Russian wikis to reflect this. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 15:26, 23 September 2024 (CEST)

@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 ::::It says Giant Eel in the trophy list. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 08:50, 22 May 2012 (CEST)
 :::::Come to think about it, that's probably where I got it from. No need to make up a name if there's already one: 'Giant Eel' (should we capitalise the word 'Eel'? grammar says no but the trophy says yes). The other names can be used as redirects. And since we're also discussing the bird, shouldn't it be 'Guardian bird' rather than 'Guardian Bird'? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 11:29, 22 May 2012 (CEST)
+::::::I would prefer to capitalise the name 'Giant Eel', as it's the closest thing the character has to a name, and calling him 'Giant eel' or 'giant eel' would stick out like a sore thumb next to all the other character articles on the wiki. Thankfully the trophy gives the 'Giant Eel' spelling a measure of officiality.
+::::::However, I don't think we should use the word 'Guardian' in the name of one guardian and not the name of the other. If 'Guardian of the Ocean World' is to be moved to 'Giant Eel', it follows that 'Guardian of the Music World' should be moved to 'Giant Bird' for the sake of consistency – which creates further problems, as there are two giant bird bosses in the game. It's a real mess.
+::::::One idea I've been toying with is naming the four main bosses after their benevolent counterparts. Maybe 'Forest King', 'Music King', 'Food King' and 'Ocean King'? Or 'Flower King', 'Bird King', 'Dragon King' and 'Shrimp King'? Just another possibility to consider. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 18:34, 22 May 2012 (CEST)
+:::::::iHeckler is right, I didn't remind this. About the bird, I would call it Guardian bird, with the noun non capitalized. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 12:32, 22 May 2012 (CEST)
+::::::::There's still a big difference: Giant Eel is a species (one of these arguably being the Guardian eel), while the Guardian bird is an individual (and Giant bird arguably being the species). As concerns the kings, I'd rather choose the second list, but why would we suddenly stop using the names from level names? Damn, Origins sure is a mess to document. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 12:21, 24 May 2012 (CEST)
+::::::::How did we not think of this before? In the level Murray of the Deep, both the Giant Eel and the Shrimp King appear, so the name Murray could apply to either of them! And since Giant Eels are basically larger versions of Mini-Murrays, it now seems obvious that Murray actually refers to the Giant Eels. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 16:33, 24 May 2012 (CEST)
+:::::::::Maybe the word 'Murray' is actually a plural? That would explain why the level names are 'Beware of Mini-Murray' and 'Murray of the Deep', rather than 'Beware of the Mini-Murrays' and 'Murrays of the Deep'. It could even be that it's both singular and plural, like the word 'sheep' – this would explain the way in which it's used to describe both the individual Murray and the multiple Mini-Murray. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 17:20, 24 May 2012 (CEST)
+Um, isn't "Murray" the name of the boss, rather than the regular enemies? It simply sounds wrong to have the eel species to be "Murray," and I am sure it is not what the developers intended. --[[User:Technology4617|technology4617]] ([[User talk:Technology4617|talk]]) 02:58, 24 December 2013 (CET)
+== Split ==
+I'd like to suggest a split so as to separate Murrays from Mini-Murrays. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 15:48, 15 December 2019 (CET)
+:Should we have three separate articles then? One for the Giant-Murray (Giant Eel), Murray (the pink medium sized ones), and the Mini-Murray? If so, we'd have to have a disambiguation, so we'd have to decide on what to call the pink ones. --[[File:Steo_sig.png|60px|link=User:Steo]] 22:07, 8 February 2020 (CET)
+::So, if I'm not mistaken, they come in three sizes:
+::*the larger ones, of which three appear in Origins (the giant eel in Gourmand Land and the other two that chase the player in Murray of the Deep), and a few more in Legends (the pink ones in [[Gloo Gloo]])
+::*the smaller ones in Beware of Mini-Murray
+::*medium-sized ones in Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout, though it's not entirely clear to me if they're actually larger than the previous ones
+::Maybe clearing this up first would help! —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 19:12, 9 February 2020 (CET)
+:::According to what we have in the games, I would say we can create a "Murray (disambiguation)" page, and the following pages:
+:::*Giant Murray, which have blue skin and blue shell (Aim for the Eel! and Murray of the Deep) or pink spiky shell (Gloo Gloo)
+:::*Murray, which have blue skin and pink spiky shell (Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout in ''Origins'') or green skin and purple spiky shell (Fire When Wetty and Scuba Shootout in Back to Origins)
+:::*Mini-Murray, which always have blue skin and pink spiky shell (Beware of Mini-Murray)
+:::*Mecha Mini-Murray, which appear in some levels of ''Legends'' --[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 00:27, 10 February 2020 (CET)
+::::I have the impression that even among the second category, they come in different sizes. See [[:File:Scuba Shootout 6.jpg|here in Scuba Shootout]] and [[:File:Fire When Wetty 12.jpg|there in Fire When Wetty]], isn't the first one significantly larger? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 09:26, 10 February 2020 (CET)
+:::::Oh... Maybe we should consider every murrays as giant murrays, except the ones in Beware of Mini-Murray?
+:::::We can turn this "Murray" page into the disambiguation page, like on the French wiki --[[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 08:53, 11 February 2020 (CET)
+::::::This page was originally about the giant eels, so it should be used for the larger murrays now (and we can create a new one for disambiguation). As for medium-sized murrays, they're spiky like all mini-murrays (though some giant ones are too), and some are closer to their size, while others appear to be closer to that of the giant ones. And they're purple in Legends for some reason. Yeah, it's a tricky one! —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 12:53, 13 February 2020 (CET)
+:::::::So we know we'll have this article for giant murrays, another article for mini-murrays, another for the mecha murrays, and a disambiguation. This will be similar to the French wiki, does this work for now? --[[File:Steo_sig.png|60px|link=User:Steo]] 14:55, 16 February 2020 (CET)
+::::::::This makes sense, the only question is where to draw the line between murrays and mini-murrays, as they appear to come in quite a variety of sizes. This is a bit arbitrary but I think your suggestion is good. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 12:42, 20 February 2020 (CET)
+:::::::::I never got around to this, but yeah, I'm not too sure where we should draw the line on those either, this part is rather confusing. --[[File:Steo_sig.png|60px|link=User:Steo]] 23:09, 14 May 2020 (CEST)
+::::::::::After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to divide the Murrays into a reasonable number of subspecies without making completely arbitrary decisions as to which Murray belongs to which kind. Almost all of them differ in size, color, behavior and other attributes and it is therefore preferable to have one large, comprehensive article rather than confusing subdivisions. I have merged articles on the French, Polish and Russian wikis to reflect this. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 15:26, 23 September 2024 (CEST)