Talk:Bad Rayman: Difference between revisions

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== Continued nitpicking over the title of the article. ==

I find it odd that no one seems to have mentioned that "Dark Rayman," as presented in Rayman 1, is a parody of Dark Link from the Zelda series, in both appearance and behavior. This would seem to indicate that Dark Rayman would be the most appropriate title for the unnamed character.

Reading the talk page, it seems that the reason for titling the article "Bad Rayman" seems to stem from something written in the manual for the British release of ''Rayman Brain Games''. The manual for a semi-obscure edutainment spinoff seems like a bit of an iffy source to me; I can't imagine the writers were paid very much for their trouble, and were likely translating from a French manuscript.

To note, in the American copy of the game I have, the manual doesn't have any references to "Bad Rayman," though I'd like to point out that the Magician is intermittently and incorrectly referred to as "the Wizard."

Moreover, the release of Revenge of the Dark is on the somewhat distant horizon, in which the character is going to be explicitly referred to as "Dark Rayman" over the course of the game, as the primary antagonist. Assuming the game ends up being covered by the Wiki, continually referring to the character as "Bad Rayman" would be a bit confusing. --[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5nMFC7r5fHTOCD8qfR5pmA RayMedia]

:First of all, Revenge of the Dark is a fan-game and shouldn't influence any major changes on the wiki. Regarding the idea of Bad/Dark Rayman being based of Dark Link is only speculation. Several similar types of "evil clones" of the main character have appeared in countless games and so on and this doesn't justify a name change in any way.

:Now, looking at the facts, this is what I've got:

*[[Rayman Junior]] - According to other users on this page it calls him "Bad Rayman".

*[[Rayman Designer]] - Named "Bad Rayman" in the game.

*[[Rayman GBC]] - Simply known as "a dark version" of Rayman, which would suggest "Dark Rayman" as the name.

*[[Rayman Advance]] - Here he is named "Dark Rayman".

*[[Rayman DSi]] - Here he is also named "Dark Rayman".

*[[Rayman Classic]] - An [[List of achievements in Rayman Classic|achievement]] calls him "Bad Rayman".

:I've heard some people mention him being named "Dark Rayman" in some PS1 and Sega Saturn manuals, but I haven't seen this myself, so I can't confirm that.

:Overall it seems like "Bad Rayman" is the original name. In other discussions here on the wiki it's been decided to leave it like this and I don't see any reason why not to. There's no clear evidence towards his name being "Dark Rayman". If you however find some concrete evidence that'd be another thing, but right now it's mainly speculation.--[[File:Carrot signature.png|75px|link=User:Carrot-master]] 10:36, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

==Name==

In Rayman Advance, during this level, you can clearly see "Watch out for Dark Rayman!" therefore his name is Dark Rayman. I'd like to know one game where he is called Bad Rayman. Just name one. [[User:Sabertooth1000000000|Sabertooth1000000000]] 19:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

:Maths and English with Rayman/Rayman Junior's manual, ok. --[[Image:RKartHead.gif]] '''[[User:Staceyw|StaceyW]] ♬''' 19:22, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

:: This question was already answered in the [[Talk:Dark Rayman]] page. Feel free to share your thoughts over there.

:: This question was already answered in the Talk:Dark Rayman page. Feel free to share your thoughts over there.

:: [[User:Hunchman801|Hunchman801]] 00:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

:: Sorry for my rudeness. I was 12. [[User:Sabertooth1000000000|Sabertooth1000000000]] ([[User talk:Sabertooth1000000000|talk]]) 07:35, 3 January 2014 (CET)

29 December 2009

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::::::I also go for the second option. There isn't much we can do. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 00:30, 11 September 2013 (CEST)

:::::::So, we're keeping Raymesis as Bad Rayman. So, should I or someone else make another Dark Rayman page solely for the Legend's iteration?--[[User:Master|Master]] ([[User talk:Master|talk]]) 21:23, 2 October 2013 (CEST)

:::::::It isn't that hard to figure out. He's just a filler. Raymesis is clearly not Dark Rayman because Dark Rayman is in the game (Also, we clarified that Dark Rayman is named "Dark Rayman" in Origins, and not "DarkRay". This is supported by the fact that he's named "Dark Rayman" in Jungle Run's DLC, and that Polokus calls Rayman "Ray", so it makes sense for him to call Dark Rayman "DarkRay"). HOWEVER.... If Raymesis deserves an article or not... err, that should be decided with more clarity. I think it's okay to simply contain Raymesis as a little portion of Dark Rayman's article, since there's little to no story about him, and he's just an excuse to make Dark Rayman still playable. Opinions?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] ([[User talk:Sergiomonty|talk]]) 08:20, 3 October 2013 (CEST)

::::::::I think there is a bigger chance that Bad Rayman was renamed to Raymesis and the Dark Rayman from the Invaded Levels is a new character than Raymesis being just an evil dude and Dark Rayman from the I.L. being Bad Rayman from R1 and RO.It's very unlikely that the developers decided to create a character which looks 99% like Bad Rayman,but is actually another guy.--[[User:TFDs39|TFDs39]]

:::::::::The Dark Rayman from the Invaded levels is definitely the same as the Bad Rayman from the original game: he's not a character, just a spell, chases Rayman copying his moves and kills him on contact. DarkRay from ''Origins'' and Raymesis from ''Legends'' are actual characters, probably the same as they're identical. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 14:30, 10 October 2013 (CEST)

::::::::::But,Humch,you are forgetting that Polokus confirmed in RO that Bad Rayman and DarkRay are the same.

::::::::::In my opinion,the easiest way to solve this is to leave Bad Rayman,DarkRay(he was already confirmed) and Raymesis(He looks totally like DarkRay) as the same characters and create a new page for the Dark Rayman from IL.

::::::::::I know there is a good reason why'd you think Bad Rayman and Dark Rayman are the same,but if Dark Rayman does what Bad Rayman did in the past,it doesn't automatically mean they are the same.If we go on the appearance way,I think that would the simplest path to solve this--[[User:TFDs39|TFDs39]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+== Continued nitpicking over the title of the article. ==
+I find it odd that no one seems to have mentioned that "Dark Rayman," as presented in Rayman 1, is a parody of Dark Link from the Zelda series, in both appearance and behavior. This would seem to indicate that Dark Rayman would be the most appropriate title for the unnamed character.
+Reading the talk page, it seems that the reason for titling the article "Bad Rayman" seems to stem from something written in the manual for the British release of ''Rayman Brain Games''. The manual for a semi-obscure edutainment spinoff seems like a bit of an iffy source to me; I can't imagine the writers were paid very much for their trouble, and were likely translating from a French manuscript.
+To note, in the American copy of the game I have, the manual doesn't have any references to "Bad Rayman," though I'd like to point out that the Magician is intermittently and incorrectly referred to as "the Wizard."
+Moreover, the release of Revenge of the Dark is on the somewhat distant horizon, in which the character is going to be explicitly referred to as "Dark Rayman" over the course of the game, as the primary antagonist. Assuming the game ends up being covered by the Wiki, continually referring to the character as "Bad Rayman" would be a bit confusing. --[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5nMFC7r5fHTOCD8qfR5pmA RayMedia]
+:First of all, Revenge of the Dark is a fan-game and shouldn't influence any major changes on the wiki. Regarding the idea of Bad/Dark Rayman being based of Dark Link is only speculation. Several similar types of "evil clones" of the main character have appeared in countless games and so on and this doesn't justify a name change in any way.
+:Now, looking at the facts, this is what I've got:
+*[[Rayman Junior]] - According to other users on this page it calls him "Bad Rayman".
+*[[Rayman Designer]] - Named "Bad Rayman" in the game.
+*[[Rayman GBC]] - Simply known as "a dark version" of Rayman, which would suggest "Dark Rayman" as the name.
+*[[Rayman Advance]] - Here he is named "Dark Rayman".
+*[[Rayman DSi]] - Here he is also named "Dark Rayman".
+*[[Rayman Classic]] - An [[List of achievements in Rayman Classic|achievement]] calls him "Bad Rayman".
+:I've heard some people mention him being named "Dark Rayman" in some PS1 and Sega Saturn manuals, but I haven't seen this myself, so I can't confirm that.
+:Overall it seems like "Bad Rayman" is the original name. In other discussions here on the wiki it's been decided to leave it like this and I don't see any reason why not to. There's no clear evidence towards his name being "Dark Rayman". If you however find some concrete evidence that'd be another thing, but right now it's mainly speculation.--[[File:Carrot signature.png|75px|link=User:Carrot-master]] 10:36, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
+==Name==
 In Rayman Advance, during this level, you can clearly see "Watch out for Dark Rayman!" therefore his name is Dark Rayman. I'd like to know one game where he is called Bad Rayman. Just name one. [[User:Sabertooth1000000000|Sabertooth1000000000]] 19:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 :Maths and English with Rayman/Rayman Junior's manual, ok.  --[[Image:RKartHead.gif]]  '''[[User:Staceyw|StaceyW]] &#9836;''' 19:22, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
-:: This question was already answered in the [[Talk:Dark Rayman]] page. Feel free to share your thoughts over there.
+:: This question was already answered in the Talk:Dark Rayman page. Feel free to share your thoughts over there.
 :: [[User:Hunchman801|Hunchman801]] 00:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
+:: Sorry for my rudeness. I was 12. [[User:Sabertooth1000000000|Sabertooth1000000000]] ([[User talk:Sabertooth1000000000|talk]]) 07:35, 3 January 2014 (CET)
 December 2009
@@ Line 80: / Line 106: @@
 ::::::I also go for the second option. There isn't much we can do. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 00:30, 11 September 2013 (CEST)
 :::::::So, we're keeping Raymesis as Bad Rayman. So, should I or someone else make another Dark Rayman page solely for the Legend's iteration?--[[User:Master|Master]] ([[User talk:Master|talk]]) 21:23, 2 October 2013 (CEST)
+:::::::It isn't that hard to figure out. He's just a filler. Raymesis is clearly not Dark Rayman because Dark Rayman is in the game (Also, we clarified that Dark Rayman is named "Dark Rayman" in Origins, and not "DarkRay". This is supported by the fact that he's named "Dark Rayman" in Jungle Run's DLC, and that Polokus calls Rayman "Ray", so it makes sense for him to call Dark Rayman "DarkRay"). HOWEVER.... If Raymesis deserves an article or not... err, that should be decided with more clarity. I think it's okay to simply contain Raymesis as a little portion of Dark Rayman's article, since there's little to no story about him, and he's just an excuse to make Dark Rayman still playable. Opinions?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] ([[User talk:Sergiomonty|talk]]) 08:20, 3 October 2013 (CEST)
+::::::::I think there is a bigger chance that Bad Rayman was renamed to Raymesis and the Dark Rayman from the Invaded Levels is a new character than Raymesis being just an evil dude and Dark Rayman from the I.L. being Bad Rayman from R1 and RO.It's very unlikely that the developers decided to create a character which looks 99% like Bad Rayman,but is actually another guy.--[[User:TFDs39|TFDs39]]
+:::::::::The Dark Rayman from the Invaded levels is definitely the same as the Bad Rayman from the original game: he's not a character, just a spell, chases Rayman copying his moves and kills him on contact. DarkRay from ''Origins'' and Raymesis from ''Legends'' are actual characters, probably the same as they're identical. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 14:30, 10 October 2013 (CEST)
+::::::::::But,Humch,you are forgetting that Polokus confirmed in RO that Bad Rayman and DarkRay are the same.
+::::::::::In my opinion,the easiest way to solve this is to leave Bad Rayman,DarkRay(he was already confirmed) and Raymesis(He looks totally like DarkRay) as the same characters and create a new page for the Dark Rayman from IL.
+::::::::::I know there is a good reason why'd you think Bad Rayman and Dark Rayman are the same,but if Dark Rayman does what Bad Rayman did in the past,it doesn't automatically mean they are the same.If we go on the appearance way,I think that would the simplest path to solve this--[[User:TFDs39|TFDs39]]