Talk:Bad Rayman

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Continued nitpicking over the title of the article.

I find it odd that no one seems to have mentioned that "Dark Rayman," as presented in Rayman 1, is a parody of Dark Link from the Zelda series, in both appearance and behavior. This would seem to indicate that Dark Rayman would be the most appropriate title for the unnamed character.

Reading the talk page, it seems that the reason for titling the article "Bad Rayman" seems to stem from something written in the manual for the British release of Rayman Brain Games. The manual for a semi-obscure edutainment spinoff seems like a bit of an iffy source to me; I can't imagine the writers were paid very much for their trouble, and were likely translating from a French manuscript.

To note, in the American copy of the game I have, the manual doesn't have any references to "Bad Rayman," though I'd like to point out that the Magician is intermittently and incorrectly referred to as "the Wizard."

Moreover, the release of Revenge of the Dark is on the somewhat distant horizon, in which the character is going to be explicitly referred to as "Dark Rayman" over the course of the game, as the primary antagonist. Assuming the game ends up being covered by the Wiki, continually referring to the character as "Bad Rayman" would be a bit confusing. --RayMedia

First of all, Revenge of the Dark is a fan-game and shouldn't influence any major changes on the wiki. Regarding the idea of Bad/Dark Rayman being based of Dark Link is only speculation. Several similar types of "evil clones" of the main character have appeared in countless games and so on and this doesn't justify a name change in any way.
Now, looking at the facts, this is what I've got:
I've heard some people mention him being named "Dark Rayman" in some PS1 and Sega Saturn manuals, but I haven't seen this myself, so I can't confirm that.
Overall it seems like "Bad Rayman" is the original name. In other discussions here on the wiki it's been decided to leave it like this and I don't see any reason why not to. There's no clear evidence towards his name being "Dark Rayman". If you however find some concrete evidence that'd be another thing, but right now it's mainly speculation.--Carrot signature.png 10:36, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Name

In Rayman Advance, during this level, you can clearly see "Watch out for Dark Rayman!" therefore his name is Dark Rayman. I'd like to know one game where he is called Bad Rayman. Just name one. Sabertooth1000000000 19:08, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Maths and English with Rayman/Rayman Junior's manual, ok. --RKartHead.gif StaceyW 19:22, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
This question was already answered in the Talk:Dark Rayman page. Feel free to share your thoughts over there.
Hunchman801 00:20, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for my rudeness. I was 12. Sabertooth1000000000 (talk) 07:35, 3 January 2014 (CET)

29 December 2009 Raymanfan219 wrote:

I learned that it was Dark Rayman. I never was there in the first Rayman game because i had to reinstall my computer and i don't knew how to put it anywhere else. But now i know it. Everything was erased so i had to start over again. I am almost near the same place as i was before. But i don't play it some many times anymore. Now i have the full serie until raving rabbids. I hate Raving Rabbids so. I have 2 Revolution 3 and M for the Ps2 and 1,2 The Great Escape,3 and m for the pc. M is also called Arena. And in Gold it is called Dark Rayman.

Colour Palette

Now that I checked that Dark Ray has a different colour palette than the original Bad Rayman... In which cases a different colour palette makes a character different? Because I read the Dark Rayman article and the only difference between him and Bad Rayman is the colour palette. Maybe they look different, but they share exactly the same concept of an evil clone of Rayman, and both are, possibly, the exact same character. Actually, in the Atari Jaguar and Gameboy Advance versions of Rayman 1 Bad Rayman is named "Dark Rayman", like in Rayman Arena. Why don't we just put together both articles? I can understand that there's a clear difference between Dark Globox and Gromblox, as both have different concepts (one is an evil clone, the other one is just a criminal glute), but Dark Rayman and Bad Rayman being different characters? I don't think so.--Sergiomonty 07:06, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

To make it short, the skin in Origins is almost identical to Bad Rayman from the original game, while the one in Arena looks nothing like him. The name issue has already been addressed numerous times, except for your mention of the Jaguar version: could you please back up your claim? —RRRGBAIcon8.pngRRRGBAIcon0.gifRRRGBAIcon1.png 23:55, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
Atari Jaguar? But Bad Rayman does not appear in this version... I wonder if both characters can be considered the same, but I don't believe... There's no indication that Rayman Arena's Dark Rayman is a creation of Mr. Dark. --Sparkle.gifHarukaSparkle.gif 23:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

DarkRay?

Does the Bubble Dreamer only call him DarkRay in certain versions of Rayman Origins? I've got the Australian version, and he doesn't mention anything about the name DarkRay at all.

Psittacidae13 03:48, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


In the English version he does. --Sparkle.gifHarukaSparkle.gif 11:20, 19 December 2011 (UTC)


Ah, ok then. Thanks for the info! :)

Psittacidae13 11:39, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Scale?

Is it just me, or does the picture of Bad Rayman from Rayman Origins have his body being a bit too small? I've just been looking between the picture of Rayman on this wiki and comparing the two; Bad Rayman's body just looks a bit small to me...

Psittacidae13 07:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

It does, but yet again this image is made from Drolpiraat's texture pack. I had to scale the Sea King's body segments and legs in order to fit them properly. The same may count for many other textures. You need to compare with references from the actual game in order to make it look right. Spanex 07:43, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


Dark Ray...man?

Is it possible that his full name is "Dark Rayman"? So far, the only evidence of his rename is the Bubble Dreamer, but I just noticed that the Bubble Dreamer also calls Rayman "Ray"--Sergiomonty 23:33, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, he's referred to as 'Dark Rayman' in some material, starting with Rayman Advance. —Spiraldoor IconSpiralDoor.png 13:41, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Exactly. But I think we shouldn't be very worried with the real name. --Sparkle.gifHarukaSparkle.gif 13:58, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
What should we do now? Call him Dark Rayman again? :s--Sergiomonty 18:56, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
I think the page is fine just the way it is. —Spiraldoor IconSpiralDoor.png 19:06, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Raymesis

How are we proceeding with the name change and the new Dark Rayman? --Master (talk) 18:26, 31 August 2013 (CEST)

I defend we keep as Bad Rayman, just like we did with the Antitoons we kept their original name, and only mentioned "also known as Darktoons". We should do the same process for Bad Rayman. --Sparkle.gifHarukaSparkle.gif 12:32, 1 September 2013 (CEST)
Very well, I've created a redirect page for Raymesis, and added the Legends character section here, so I guess alls well ends well. --Master (talk) 13:55, 1 September 2013 (CEST)
Now this is tricky. It seems like there's three evil clones:
  • Bad Rayman, later referred to as Rayman's Wicked Double and Dark Rayman, who appears in the original game, its Game Boy Color adaptation and Rayman Legends; he appears to be a spell, copying every of Rayman's moves and causing death upon contact
  • Dark Rayman, a skin in Rayman Arena
  • Raymesis, a playable character in Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends
In that regard, we could keep Bad Rayman as the main article for the first one, use Dark Rayman as a redirect, then Dark Rayman (Rayman Arena) would be used instead for the second one, and Raymesis would be the article for the third one.
The only thing that bothers me is how much Raymesis looks like the original Bad Rayman, who is quite different from the one in Legends.
What do you guys think? —RRRGBAIcon8.pngRRRGBAIcon0.gifRRRGBAIcon1.png 14:08, 9 September 2013 (CEST)
I agree with what you said, I also defended the original use of Bad Rayman. --Sparkle.gifHarukaSparkle.gif 15:53, 9 September 2013 (CEST)
I agree with you too.
But in Rayman Origins, when you pull on the beard of Polokus with the evil clone, he says that his creator is Mr. Dark (“Blame it on Mr. Dark!”) and calls him DarkRay.
So I think that the evil clone from Origins is also the original Bad Rayman.
Raymesis appears in Rayman Legends, not in Origins. -- Boomboleros7 21:09, 9 September 2013 (CEST)
Then this is getting really complicated now. Raymesis from Legends looks exactly the same as the evil clone in Origins, and just like we considered characters from Legends to be the same as their identical counterparts from Origins (e.g. Teensy Queen), the only way to be consistent is to assume that these two clones are the same as well. And thus a different clone from Bad Rayman, which makes sense as the latter is nothing more than a spell, not a character. But then, this becomes inconsistent with Polokus' quote in Origins which mentions Mr Dark as his creator.
So, unless someone can think of a better explanation, I see only two alternatives:
  • We disregard Polokus' quote in Origins as a joke or as some oddity or incoherence and stick to the separation I mentioned above.
  • We accept the fact that there is no way to make sense out of the contradicting information we are provided (not surprising given how much these games are focused on the story line) and keep all the “DarkRay”/Raymesis information in the Bad Rayman article, mentioning the said inconsistencies.
RRRGBAIcon8.pngRRRGBAIcon0.gifRRRGBAIcon1.png 15:08, 10 September 2013 (CEST)
I prefer the second option. --iHeckler9Life.gif 18:36, 10 September 2013 (CEST)
I also go for the second option. There isn't much we can do. --Sparkle.gifHarukaSparkle.gif 00:30, 11 September 2013 (CEST)
So, we're keeping Raymesis as Bad Rayman. So, should I or someone else make another Dark Rayman page solely for the Legend's iteration?--Master (talk) 21:23, 2 October 2013 (CEST)
It isn't that hard to figure out. He's just a filler. Raymesis is clearly not Dark Rayman because Dark Rayman is in the game (Also, we clarified that Dark Rayman is named "Dark Rayman" in Origins, and not "DarkRay". This is supported by the fact that he's named "Dark Rayman" in Jungle Run's DLC, and that Polokus calls Rayman "Ray", so it makes sense for him to call Dark Rayman "DarkRay"). HOWEVER.... If Raymesis deserves an article or not... err, that should be decided with more clarity. I think it's okay to simply contain Raymesis as a little portion of Dark Rayman's article, since there's little to no story about him, and he's just an excuse to make Dark Rayman still playable. Opinions?--Sergiomonty (talk) 08:20, 3 October 2013 (CEST)
I think there is a bigger chance that Bad Rayman was renamed to Raymesis and the Dark Rayman from the Invaded Levels is a new character than Raymesis being just an evil dude and Dark Rayman from the I.L. being Bad Rayman from R1 and RO.It's very unlikely that the developers decided to create a character which looks 99% like Bad Rayman,but is actually another guy.--TFDs39
The Dark Rayman from the Invaded levels is definitely the same as the Bad Rayman from the original game: he's not a character, just a spell, chases Rayman copying his moves and kills him on contact. DarkRay from Origins and Raymesis from Legends are actual characters, probably the same as they're identical. —RRRGBAIcon8.pngRRRGBAIcon0.gifRRRGBAIcon1.png 14:30, 10 October 2013 (CEST)
But,Humch,you are forgetting that Polokus confirmed in RO that Bad Rayman and DarkRay are the same.
In my opinion,the easiest way to solve this is to leave Bad Rayman,DarkRay(he was already confirmed) and Raymesis(He looks totally like DarkRay) as the same characters and create a new page for the Dark Rayman from IL.
I know there is a good reason why'd you think Bad Rayman and Dark Rayman are the same,but if Dark Rayman does what Bad Rayman did in the past,it doesn't automatically mean they are the same.If we go on the appearance way,I think that would the simplest path to solve this--TFDs39