Rayman 3D
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Henchman1028
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The yellow thing in his hand looks like the energy balls he fires in Rayman 2, so I am assuming it is a remake of Rayman 2.
spiraldoor
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Good to see that you went to the trouble of reading the thread.Henchman1028 said:
Joshua822
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That's a good argument. In fact, that is a really good argument and a really good comparison. But then again, those books aren't rewritten to use current day language. And just as these books aren't rewritten, games shouldn't be updated endlessly for centuries. Why not let future generations play video games which are culturally important in an emulator or on a reconstructed console?
This might come as a shock to you, but I am not even planning to play this game.
Adsolution
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Well along with the PC version which you can play at any resolution you want. 1920x1080 and 32xAA here. :mryellow:syntheticgerbil said:
Well Rayman 2 is obviously a great game, but if you exploit something too much it becomes almost an annoyance. Pretty much every year or two Ubisoft keeps re-branding Rayman 2 with a completely new title and the same catchphrase and nothing new (aside from Revolution).spiraldoor said:
If I were to use Joshua's comparison: It's like taking a book and re-releasing it in book, then e-book form and renaming it every single time you change or update the grammar in it or release it again a few years later.
Xenon
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I don't see this as a damaging exploitation of the Rayman series. Ubisoft aren't altering the heart and structure of Rayman 2; they are just graphically improving the quality of it. The fact that they are choosing to re-release these games will inevitably increase public awareness of the franchise (or at least what it was) and expand the fandom (which is highly beneficial for the forum 
).
Like spiraldoor, I don't see how anything negative could possibly be drawn from this news. It's surely a win-win situation.
).Like spiraldoor, I don't see how anything negative could possibly be drawn from this news. It's surely a win-win situation.
Haruka
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As I said before, I also don't see why you guys are taking this negatively, because I see this as a positive thing: it will make Rayman 2 reach to a newer audience that never had contact with Rayman 2 before or Rayman's games. And R2 is the best choice from the trilogy.
spiraldoor
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Why shouldn’t games be updated endlessly? That way there’s always the latest versions – for those who want them – and there’s always the originals – for those who want them. There’s no reason originals and remakes can’t co-exist.Joshua822 said:
Then why complain about it? It doesn’t affect you, and there are plenty of people willing to buy it, so why shouldn’t it be released?Joshua822 said:
I don’t see how anyone could come to regard new versions of old Rayman games as an ‘annoyance’. Sure Ubisoft are exploiting the game – they are perfectly within their rights to do this, and would be foolish not to, as there’s nothing wrong with it. More sales and greater awareness for Rayman platformers can’t possibly be a bad thing. The title change is mildly troubling – how will casual newcomers know that what they’re playing is really the second Rayman game? – but it’s a negligible sacrifice in order to give these people the chance to play the game at all. I found that Revolution brought much less worthwhile new content to the table than the Dreamcast version did, but let’s not go there. I don’t really understand the e-book comparison – who cares if the latest digital edition of your favourite book has been retitled? You don’t have to purchase the new version if you don’t want to, but that updated grammar sure looks pretty.RayFan9876 said:
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/spiraldoor/Dreamcastcomparison2.jpgsyntheticgerbil said:
https://raymanpc.com/wiki/images/7/7d/Rayman-3D1.jpg
http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q388/spiraldoor/Dreamcastcomparison1.jpg
https://raymanpc.com/wiki/images/7/71/Rayman-3D4.jpg
The models and lighting have most definitely been fiddled with between the Dreamcast and 3DS versions.
Adsolution
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Yeah okay that's true, but I think that after some time things should be left as antiques and as sort of a golden thing. If it keeps getting re-released every couple years over and over til 2100, it may have lost it's magic to everyone except the little kids who haven't heard of it. Why? There's so many versions that the game doesn't bring back memories the way you want it to anymore. You've got to admit, Rayman 2 may be a great game to do this with (but nothing is after a certain amount of time), but Ubisoft is lacking the effort to actually give the game a graphical overhaul, which I think it needs after all this time.
Ubisoft is just plain lacking effort on this series lately. The Rabbid's games were cheaply made, each one getting more strange and repetitive than the last, and Rayman Origins doesn't look like it'll really feel like a Rayman game. It looks like a slippery flash game with great artwork. And these "upgraded graphics" obviously look prettier, but from a technical standpoint all they did was increase a few values.
These kids just being introduced to the game won't even recognize where the game came from and then they'll be shocked to know that they're on like the eighth or ninth port of the game since it's release. That's just what I'm picturing though. It could happen differently.
I've got to admit though, that is a pretty comparison. I'll be getting a 3Ds and Rayman 3D. I''m really, really liking the HDR and DOF effects.
Ubisoft is just plain lacking effort on this series lately. The Rabbid's games were cheaply made, each one getting more strange and repetitive than the last, and Rayman Origins doesn't look like it'll really feel like a Rayman game. It looks like a slippery flash game with great artwork. And these "upgraded graphics" obviously look prettier, but from a technical standpoint all they did was increase a few values.
These kids just being introduced to the game won't even recognize where the game came from and then they'll be shocked to know that they're on like the eighth or ninth port of the game since it's release. That's just what I'm picturing though. It could happen differently.
I've got to admit though, that is a pretty comparison. I'll be getting a 3Ds and Rayman 3D. I''m really, really liking the HDR and DOF effects.
spiraldoor
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I don’t quite get what you mean – having too many versions of a game on the market kills nostalgia? Not for me. I’ve played through half a dozen versions of Rayman 2 since I first got the PlayStation version ten or more years ago, and that one’s still special for me. I don’t see how these new ports could cause the game to ‘lose its magic’ – if you worry that they will ruin the game for you, then by all means, don’t buy them. Just play Revolution instead and you should be fine. Unless it’s the sheer existence of the new ports which undermines your enjoyment of the game, in which case I don’t really know what to say to you.
I suppose The Lord of the Rings would have been something of an ‘antique’ and a ‘golden thing’ if the publishers had stopped printing it after five or ten years, but what’s the point of putting a book or a game on a plinth like that if it means that no one can read or play it?
Rayman Origins looks excellent. It is being designed by Michel Ancel. It is tying together the previous games. I have already given it a carte blanche.
I really don’t think kids will be ‘shocked’ to realise that their new game is actually a new version of an old game. Perhaps they’ll even say ‘Oh cool, this new game is already part of a decades-spanning series, I think I’ll go and check out some of the others and see if they’re any good, and maybe I’ll take a look at the forums’.
I suppose The Lord of the Rings would have been something of an ‘antique’ and a ‘golden thing’ if the publishers had stopped printing it after five or ten years, but what’s the point of putting a book or a game on a plinth like that if it means that no one can read or play it?
Rayman Origins looks excellent. It is being designed by Michel Ancel. It is tying together the previous games. I have already given it a carte blanche.
I really don’t think kids will be ‘shocked’ to realise that their new game is actually a new version of an old game. Perhaps they’ll even say ‘Oh cool, this new game is already part of a decades-spanning series, I think I’ll go and check out some of the others and see if they’re any good, and maybe I’ll take a look at the forums’.
Joshua822
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Where did I even say that I won't enjoy the game because it has been ported nine times?
To be honest, I'm not talking from a logical perspective. Economically speaking it is indeed a very good idea to use existing ideas as much as possible. But to be honest I don't really think that's what should be done.
I'm actually looking at it from an artistic perspective. Sure, we can recycle all the art there is starting now for forever. But that is actually killing the entire thing culture and art are made of. Culture and art evolves around more then looking pretty and acting well. Culture and art is about expressing ideas, feelings, hopes and dreams. Humanity and the world evolves, and with that it is natural that our culture will evolve along with it. It would be stupid to change that into some unnatural recycling process merely because of stupid economic concerns. Ubisoft will definitely make enough money making new games, they don't need century old games to make money.
The people of 2110 should make their own art and create their own culture based on their ideas, feelings, hopes and dreams, not those of the people of 2010.
And economically speaking it would be the best thing to just stop researching new fields of science. Finding simple life forms on other planets or finding cures for rare deceases is not a very good economic move, but does that mean it shouldn't be done?
And about your Lords of the Ring example, it's not like I ever said that all old pieces of art should stop being produced. But there is one important difference: reprinting these books doesn't require the amount of effort a game does. Making a game available to newer generations of consoles is pretty hard, especially when those new generations actually innovate instead of just putting faster hardware in a black box. That energy should be spent making new culture, not trying to hold on old culture.
Just let Rayman 2 rest in peace, people. Those that will want to play it in the future will be able to thanks to emulators. We don't need a million ports of the game.
Please, just stop trying to convince me through logical BS. I don't cara that it's logical, this is just how I feel about it.
To be honest, I'm not talking from a logical perspective. Economically speaking it is indeed a very good idea to use existing ideas as much as possible. But to be honest I don't really think that's what should be done.
I'm actually looking at it from an artistic perspective. Sure, we can recycle all the art there is starting now for forever. But that is actually killing the entire thing culture and art are made of. Culture and art evolves around more then looking pretty and acting well. Culture and art is about expressing ideas, feelings, hopes and dreams. Humanity and the world evolves, and with that it is natural that our culture will evolve along with it. It would be stupid to change that into some unnatural recycling process merely because of stupid economic concerns. Ubisoft will definitely make enough money making new games, they don't need century old games to make money.
The people of 2110 should make their own art and create their own culture based on their ideas, feelings, hopes and dreams, not those of the people of 2010.
And economically speaking it would be the best thing to just stop researching new fields of science. Finding simple life forms on other planets or finding cures for rare deceases is not a very good economic move, but does that mean it shouldn't be done?
And about your Lords of the Ring example, it's not like I ever said that all old pieces of art should stop being produced. But there is one important difference: reprinting these books doesn't require the amount of effort a game does. Making a game available to newer generations of consoles is pretty hard, especially when those new generations actually innovate instead of just putting faster hardware in a black box. That energy should be spent making new culture, not trying to hold on old culture.
Just let Rayman 2 rest in peace, people. Those that will want to play it in the future will be able to thanks to emulators. We don't need a million ports of the game.
Please, just stop trying to convince me through logical BS. I don't cara that it's logical, this is just how I feel about it.
Haruka
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spiraldoor said:
That's also my position about Rayman Origins. I am depositating my whole confidence in Michel Ancel since he's not only working in the game, aswell he is Rayman's creator and directed Rayman 1 and Rayman 2: The Great Escape games, which were excellent.
syntheticgerbil
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Of course, I always forget about PC resolutions.RayFan9876 said:
spiraldoor said:
Ah now I see the added polygons. It appears many textures have either been gone over slightly or redrawn to a small extent. Can't say that's unwelcome at all.
Too bad the wood on the second screenshot in the foreground still looks like ass.spiraldoor said:
I don't think nostalgia can be killed but a poor or mediocre revamp or remake of a classic title can tarnish the image of the game to people who have never played the original. Ubisoft has been cashing in foremost over quality the last decade, I just don't want them to screw up again the way they did with Rayman DS or Rayman DSi. I personally don't even like Rayman Advance. Even past that, they didn't do that great with the PoP Trilogy HD, PoP Classic, Warrior Within in iPhone or whatever else, and they messed up the Earthworm Jim HD version in many ways. So while good ports do nothing but help promote a game, bad ones make people who loved the original game embarassed. So fingers crossed that they'll do this game justice for the 3DS. I'm already slightly worried about Beyond Good and Evil HD.
I don't agree with others that Rayman Origins is representative of this, because Ancel seems to be big on keeping a strong vision. I think the problem lies more with Ubisoft's rereleases and shovelware they constantly release. These get sent to all kinds of subpar Ubisoft divisions, most notably Gameloft, with no intention of releasing a quality product, but instead getting the game out there as quick and dirty as possible. Does anyone have any information on what Ubisoft division is working on Rayman 3D?
Adsolution
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Alas, this is the folly of Spiraldoor; he can not cross into understanding beyond logic.Joshua822 said:
Also I for some reason wasn't informed Michel was working on Origins. In that case, hands down I'm prepared for something amazing.
Sabertooth
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I agree with everything that Joshua said. It's like he took my opinion and expressed it in a way that I never could have.
spiraldoor
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What makes you think I was talking to you? As you can clearly see by the post order, I was responding to RayFan, who claimed that porting a game too many times causes it to ‘lose its magic’. I had already responded to your post by this time, as you are undoubtedly aware.Joshua822 said:
I’m afraid that all of this is nonsense. You seem to think that game remakes and re-releases are somehow causing less original games to be released, which is simply not true. The effect of remakes on the production of new games is negligible – if the number of new games coming out each year was inversely proportional to the number of game remakes coming out each year,then you would have a very good point, but reality does not work that way.Joshua822 said:
Nonsense. Cures for rare diseases can be patented and marketed. Alien lifeforms could hold unimaginable monetary potential. What gives you the idea that these things are not profitable? It’s baffling that you could actually believe this.Joshua822 said:
As I have already explained, the amount of effort required to repackage an old game for a newer platform is minimal in comparison to the amount of effort required to create a new game completely from scratch; to suggest that remakes are in some way retarding the development of new, original games is simply wrong. Do you think they’d be giving us a Rayman 4 if they weren’t so busy with Rayman 3D? Come on.Joshua822 said:
‘We don’t need a million ports of the game’? Who the hell is ‘we’? Since when are you the representative and mouthpiece of all the gamers in the world? I don’t give a damn if you want Rayman 3D or not. I do, and so do the thousands of others who are going to buy it. Not everyone has interest in emulators or access to them, and it does the games absolutely no harm to release new and improved versions for modern hardware. What about the millions of kids who are getting 3DSs? Don’t you want them to have access to the old Rayman games? Some people, myself included, want versions with better graphics and additional content. If you think they shouldn’t be allowed this, then that’s just too bad for you, isn’t it? I’m glad you have no say. If it was up to you, the Dreamcast version and Revolution probably wouldn’t exist.Joshua822 said:
Yeah, who needs logic and reason when you can have emotions? ‘Rayman 2 should never be re-released! Fuck all the kids who want to play it on their 3DS! Rawr!’Joshua822 said:
Why are you talking about me in this way? Is this some sort of meme I haven’t been informed of? ‘Spiraldoor is a creature of logic, he cannot understand us!’ I have no idea where you’re getting this crap from; is this some sort of response you use after losing arguments? ‘Bah, you’re so stupid and logical, you’ll never understand me, you logical fool.’ I am beginning to feel as if I am in a lunatic asylum.RayFan9876 said:Alas, this is the folly of Spiraldoor; he can not cross into understanding beyond logic.
spiraldoor
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Good to see that you went to the trouble of reading the thread.Rsandee said:
Joshua822
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You really don't get economy do you? Your first argument is bullshit:
* Make the cure available at an affordable price -> no profit, there aren't enough people asking for the product.
* Make the cure available at a price that will make profit possible -> no profit, since no one can afford it
Your second argument is bullshit:
* Even if you do find new species, the costs related to getting them here or going there will be so high that selling these creatures or trading with them will be unprofitable.
Oh, you've never tried to port C++ software to another hardware architecture / operating system did you? Because let me tell you that that is actually a task that most of the time will require the conversion of files, the rewriting of some ( or all ) of the game engine, updating the graphics, updating the sounds, etc...
That's a lot of work, that effort can be put into making new games.
And assuming that the energy going into Rayman 3D couldn't be spent making a new Rayman 4 is clearly wrong.
Opinions are usually expressed in the first person plural form. I suggest you get used to that, since half of the people does it.
And no, I actually prefer that kids don't enjoy old games on their brand new consoles, I want them to enjoy new Rayman games on their consoles. They deserve more then remakes of ten year old games.
And I never said that people shouldn't be allowed to want remakes. I only said that I prefer original games.
Yeah, who needs emotions when you can have logic and reason? ‘Rayman 2 should never be re-released! Fuck all the kids who want to play it on their 3DS! Rawr!’
There should be a balance between them. They shouldn't be like in your black and white world.
No offense, but she's right. We give you arguments based on emotion, and you give counter-arguments based on logic and reason. This clearly doesn't work. You can't fight logical arguments with emotional arguments. And that is the only thing that gives you the impression that you have won. Rayfan didn't lose, she just stepped out of the argument because continuing was useless for the reasons I said earlier.
