Hunchman801 wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 1:51 pm
Anyway, I'll see if I can get ahold of boombo and have his opinion on this!
Maybe it’s time for me to give it.
Sorry again, I was away of RPC and wasn’t in the mood to think about this subject.
You know, the first time I saw the new Livingstones (don’t like this "Lividstone" thing
) clothes in
Rayman Legends, I thought "OMG, they used this at least!"
You see, there's a rhythm in the French educational games
Rayman Maternelle and
Rayman CP which presents the Livingstones as a people who enjoy disguise themselves.
https://raymanpc.com/wiki/images/7/71/Comptine_10.jpg
Here's a personal translation (without rhymes, sorry
):
Not so long ago,
I discovered a surprising people
Where all inhabitants surprisingly look like the others
But change all the time.
They stroll tranquilly.
For example, here's a grey one
With an umbrella,
Suddenly he whirls on himself,
And wham! Now he's all white
With gloves and a turban.
How extravagant they are!
Maybe if I observe them attentively,
I will solve this surprising mystery.
Now, some may think it’s naïve to think there were developers in
Rayman Legends team who remember these educational games and thought it was a good idea to use one of their elements in a main game of the
Rayman series.
Hey, many fans consider people behind the UbiArt games had little consideration for previous main games, so they mustn’t really care about the spin-offs.
But, I continue to think in a little corner of my head it’s a conscious inspiration.
Some said this kind of “nerdy knowledge” is reserved to audience, (hardcore) fans who have almost everything they want within reach and don't analyze films/books/video games... the same way as the ones who create them, but I don’t think it’s true.
I think among fictional universe creators, there are people who really care a lot about lore and what has been done in the past.
Even at Ubisoft.
That’s also why, even if it’s very interesting, I don’t fully agree with the
feedback loop theory.
That’s me, I still have hope in some things.
However
I know of course the main reason for this clothes change is linked to the world where we meet Livingstones.
A medieval world, where enemies dressed like explorers would be out of place.
At first, I wondered why Livingstones wear hats with a feather and brown waistcoats. I expected they dress like knights or soldiers in a medieval world.
Am I the only one who thinks they look like pirates?
The Castle Rock level reinforces the comparison since we meet here Livingstones with orange headbands.
But after some research, there were indeed similar hats and feathered hats in the Middle Ages, mainly wear by peasants it seems.
So... Livingstones in Teensies in Trouble are some sorts of angry peasants who are now in charge of castle after revolting against their owners?
What would explain the outfit and their main weapon, a stick with a big nail.
They can’t have afford to have many battle weapons like soldiers and knights.
There’s another possibility, linked to this image:
https://raymanpc.com/wiki/script-en/ima ... art_66.jpg
Such a same these Hunters-Archers aren’t in the final game!
But they looked like classic representations of Robin Hood, and we know Hunters and Livingstones work together since many years.
So... Medieval Livingstones are supposed to be the Merry Men of Robin Hood?
Or the Poor (Peasants) who decided to fight against the Rich with Robin Hood?
That would be coherent with the
Rayman Legends thematic, where most of enemies are inspired by myths, legends, tales, folklore and other stories.
Though it’s kinda weird to see Robin Hood and his Merry Men as the bad guys of an entire world.
Shouldn’t we expect Hunters and Livingstones inspired by Prince John, Sheriff of Nottingham and the Royal Army?
Or... maybe it’s not surprising...
It depends if you consider Ubisoft support the Poor or the Rich.
Now, let’s talk about Jacquouille(s)
Droolie wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:52 pm
From what I remember, I would describe him as dumb, a bit gross and mischievous. So this is actually the perfect name for the enemy of the medieval world in Legends.
What’s the only similarities I see between Medieval Livingstones and Jacquouille in
Les Visiteurs movie series.
Plus their ugliness.
I don’t remember Jacquouille wearing a feathered hat in any movie.
Considering the possible inspirations for Medieval Livingstones I talked about, I would say developers chose to call them Jacquouilles because “jacques” was a derogatory nickname for peasants in France during the Middle Ages (and a peasant revolt was called a “jacquerie”
) (what’s also why the character in
Les Visiteurs movies is called Jacquouille), and because Jacquouille is a pretty famous (peasant) character related to Middle Ages in France.
But what about Robin Hood’s Merry Men? Why not call them after one of them?
Well, I suppose because of the (in)famous French chauvinism
, and because Robin Hood isn’t as popular in France as he can be in other countries. And his Merry Men are much less unknown.
And maybe because the names of the Robin Hood’s Merry Men weren’t practical to name enemies.
I mean, Livingstones and Jacquouilles, why not?
But Alan-a-Dales? Tucks? (well, why not, but they aren’t dressed as friars) Scarlets? (why not too, but Will Scarlet isn’t very known in France) Little Johns?
Hey, Little Johns could be cool for the Little Livingstones...
if they didn’t disappeared after
Rayman 1!
Other comments I would like to do on image from earlier:
https://raymanpc.com/wiki/script-en/ima ... art_66.jpg
So, developers planned to add Livingstones with turbans? (Like in the rhythm! Like in the rhythm!
)
Interesting... I wonder in which world they were...
If you say a desert world in
Rayman Legends, I say the Infinite Tower (aka the ruins of Desert of Dijiridoos
). Is it the remains of a scrapped world?
I also wonder how they were going to call these Desert Livingstones...
Following their logic, they could be called Xerxes or Stilgars...
Or Dastans, if they like private jokes.
I see on the artwork the word “Brigand”, which reminds me the “Bandit” name RayGamer99 talked about.
Was it like in
Skyrim, where the names of the different types of enemies who attack you on the roads are synonyms of “thief”?
Now, to answer the question “should we split Livingstones and Jacquouilles?”
Well, I hesitate, considering treatment of other enemies in the
Rayman series and enemies in other video games.
You could say the simple fact they have different names is enough for a separated article, like, for example, the Stumblebooms who are just Hoodbooms on stilts, and the Gloombas of the
Mario series who are just blue Goombas.
It should be noted however "Jacquouille" has been only used in game files, which doesn't have the same importance as a name used by a character description in
Rayman Adventures (Livingstone) or Rayman Official Facebook page (Livingstone again).
Yeah, I know, social media trivia from community managers (or even creators themselves sometimes) and feedback loops mean we must take it with a pinch of salt.
But, like some people said here, Livingstones and Jacquouilles have almost the same patterns, and usually, you don’t create multiple articles for enemies who just where different clothes. Like the German soldiers in the old
Call of Duty games, who have different clothes depending on the country you fight them. Or the Genome Soldiers in the first
Metal Gear Solid, who have different clothes depending on where you meet them, outside or inside Shadow Moses base.
However, I said ALMOST the same patterns, you never meet for example Livingstones using stilts, shields or parachutes like Jacquouilles. And what could be enough to justify separated articles. After all, we have multiple articles about Henchmen 800, and yet, their main differences are clothes and energy projectiles they shoot. Red Minotaurs are also separated from the others, while they just have different skin color and the capacity to breath fire.
Yeah, sorry for not ruling the question immediately, I prefer giving you some food for thought, I kinda prefer this sometimes.
This is honestly how I see the subject.
Droolie wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 7:46 pm
And even later on, lividstones were hastily added back into the game for Back to Origins, as a different type of "bandit".
It's true while enemies like roots and tentacles have the same or almost the same design as in
Rayman Legends levels, Livingstones wear their classis outfit in Back to Origins levels, you could expect them to look like Jacquouilles.
It reminds me some
Rayman Adventures levels feature Livingstones instead of Jacquouilles, especially one with Indiana Jones vibes.
I would say Livingstones wear their explorer gears in jungle worlds and Jacquouille gears in worlds with European forests like Teensies in Trouble, but in
Rayman Origins, they don't mind keep their pith helmets and light clothes everywhere, even in the cold mountains of Mystical Pique.
Couldn't they wear ushankas and coats here?
Yeah, I know the answer may be developers were uninspired, too lazy or too hurry to create different design during
Origins development.
