Talk:Mr Dark: Difference between revisions

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:It is happening the same thing to me. Huuuuunch? --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

:It's the same for me. It's a problem for every image! —[[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] 20:38, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

:The problem should be solved now, I was able to upload the image: see ~~[[:~~File:Mrdarkteensie1.jpg]]. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

:The problem should be solved now, I was able to upload the image: see File:Mrdarkteensie1.jpg. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

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[[Image:~~RaymanSaturnFin~~.~~jpg~~]]

[[Image:Rayman Saturn Moons.png]]

The same image can be found in the [[Moons]] article, so there's no reason to repeat it. Also, some space is required, because there's a new image of Mr Dark (The one from Rayman Origins) that should be used as his new profile picture (because it's the newest). The place where it's situated right now deforms the wiki, so I'm going to replace the picture of Mr Dark using his binoculars with the new image from Rayman Origins, and then I'm going replace the irrelevant picture of the moons with the image of Mr Dark using his binoculars (so it won't get lost).--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 04:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

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Okay then, but I'm still not convinced enough... --[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:19, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'm back. I seriously can't agree with the direction that this article is taking. Since the Magician has been proven to be something different from Mr Dark, the previous discussion is irrelevant at this point. We can still suggest this Hybrid-vs-Transformation as a very valid theory, but not just state it like it's obvious, because it isn't. There's a health bar that could simply mean Mr Dark's resources, even if previous bosses had a health bar. There's still no explanation to the two Moskito Mammas, and talking about clonation would be going way too far into speculation. So far, opinions about this have been divided in RPC, so I suggest to change the explanation of the boss battle into something more concrete, and then comment that the Atari Jaguar version suggests that those hybrids were in fact Mr Dark himself. Not just say "THIS IS A FACT" and call it a day.--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] ([[User talk:Sergiomonty|talk]]) 07:22, 30 September 2013 (CEST)

==Mr Dark vs the Magician==

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:::Hmmm, I don't think that's something important at all. Possibly two different artists made each hat, or they made the in-game hat thicker to make it easy to jump on. However, if we're talking about the "Magician's hat", then that information shouldn't be posted on Mr Dark's article, as it doesn't have anything to do with Mr Dark.--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 19:50, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

:At this stage I'm almost totally convinced that the Magician is simply an admirer of Mr Dark. The turning point came when I finally got the game and noticed that it contained no references to Mr Dark being the source of the invasion (which I had previously thought was the case). The information from the official site is reproduced in the manual, but the part about Mr Dark was removed, and so were the similarly erroneous sections about piranhas and Soldier insects. The mistake about Jano being Polokus was also corrected. I can only conclude that the site wasn't proof-read or fact-checked, allowing some incorrect information and an out-of-date picture of 'Mr Dark' to slip in. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

::That's the exact point I've written in the RPC after beating the game by myself. I also believe the Magician is just an admirer of Mr. Dark, not only due to the way the Reveal cutscene was made in terms of body language, but also by the inexistence of direct evidences for the contrary. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

:::We can say that the guy in this artwork is totally Mr Dark [[File:Char-mr-dark.png|150px]], because the website describes him as the original Mr Dark from Rayman 1. Mr Dark's body is thinner than the Magician's, has enormous feet and wears a black robe instead of purple; the star pull-off may just represent that he just wanted to become like him. The fake wig on his head also may be an indirect symbol of his fanaticism (remember? he was blonde before!). If you look carefully, Mr Dark's body looks a lot like the Photographer's [[File:CrazyPhotographer-info-1.png|150px]], possibly due an early design for the teensies: bigger eyes, bigger hands and feet, thinner bodies, and stylized noses. It is possible that both were scrapped when the game became a sequel. Mr Dark supposedly died in the GBC version of Rayman 2, anyway...--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 22:41, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

::::Correction: GBC version of Rayman 1. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 23:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

::::If you look closely at that 'Mr Dark' character's nose, you'll see that it bears a dark zig-zig which is exactly the same as the one on the Magician's nose, which, combined with the similar hair, hat and general appearance pretty much confirms that it's just the Magician in disguise. Most of the Teensies in the game have slightly quirky noses with unique little patterns on them; the Grand Minimus has smooth spirals, the fire Teensy has jagged spirals, the zombie Teensy has skull markings. I think the information on the site is a simple mistake, or maybe a holdover from an earlier version of the game, like the Soldiers or the piranhas. That's why no trace of it remains in the manual. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:18, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::Are you saying that the picture of 'Mr Dark' is possibly an early artwork of him before the game stopped being a sequel? Because I would believe that; In fact, it is very notable that the developers created the Magician based on the scrapped artwork of Mr Dark. Tons of materials from the website look more based on the prequel than the final game itself. By the way, I checked if it was a mistake (just like the Polokus/Jano alter-ego issues) and it isn't, in every language, even french, it says that the guy on the artwork is Mr Dark from Rayman 1. I want some opinions here: can we change "'''The mysterious villain of Rayman Origins'''" to "'''Early artwork of Mr Dark, subsequently used to redesign the Magician'''".?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 03:52, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::It's not necessarily from when the game was a prequel – it could could still be from the sequel era. Maybe they originally planned to have this 'Mr Dark' appear and taunt Rayman throughout the game, only to be unmasked as the Magician at the end, which is where the 'I always wanted to be like Mr Dark' dialogue would occur. Referring to him as 'Mr Dark' on the site could have been part of a deception, like the above example of the original Metroid manual referring to Samus as a male. If I'm right, they may have scrapped this because they didn't want the storyline to be too confusing or too dependent on knowledge of the other games, or they may not have wanted to disappoint players by leading them to believe Mr Dark was in the game, only to reveal at the last minute that it wasn't him. The storyline that survives into the game itself is much more straightforward: the Magician turns bad, with no confusing disguises involved. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an easier plot so Mr.Dark escapes the land of the livid dead (since the magician done his bit by adding a microphone)next he disguises himself as the magician and collect lums then caught he takes of his disguise and pulls a lever next he runs and jumps on a warship and KABOOM now it leads to this this question did he survive --[[User:Leondude|Leon]] 09:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

:And suddenly Wikipedia is God. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 19:08, 30 March 2012 (CEST)

==Mr. Dark: Root Of All Evil?==

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:This kind of open-ended speculative discussion would probably do better in the forum. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 15:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

::I agree with Spiral, but in fact those are pertinent theories. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 17:35, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

::: Indeed, many of the theories given are solid enough to be mentioned on the wiki. However, I have to disagree with...well... a little piece of nothing that doesn't change anything; it was confirmed sometime ago that Polokus and Jano aren't the same character, it was just a traslation issue on the english website. Also, it is possible that Darktoons, although being created by Jano, can do what they want, and join the evil force in which they feel confortable, for example, some may join Mr Dark/The Magician, while some may join the Livid Dead. If the Magician really had an alliance with ALL of the Darktoons, why would he have to use a dirty trick like a hidden microphone to start a war between Rayman and the Darktoons, if he only needed to call his darktoon army to attack them directly?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

::::Maybe he wanted the Granny to do some of the work whilst Mr Dark started building Moody Clouds? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 18:09, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::Mr Dark sending a Granny to kill Rayman? that's... crude.--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::Hey, it's possible. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 18:36, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::::Was it neccesary to use the microphone? If they were allies he would simply go and ask her for help--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::::Maybe the Granny needed to be provoked and the microphone was the only way of hearing them. Maybe they were listening to their every sound and they just fell asleep and started snoring. Maybe Mr Dark didn't plan for the snoring to annoy them. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 19:12, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::And maybe that's not Mr Dark at all. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 19:48, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::True, true. By the way, Mr Dark or not, that doesn't proof that the Darktoons at the opening cinematic worked for him, and the theory of the granny and the microphone sounds very hypothetical. As Spiraldoor said before, Darktoons are just bad guys, they don't seem to have any main ruler, you can see that in Rayman 2. The Magician is a weak guy and a jerk, people bullied him during childhood, so he doesn't seem to have any control over the nightmarish creatures; in fact, his plan IS to destroy those nightmarish creatures with his gigantic machines, remember? that's written on the script. If every lividstone in the game worked for the Magician, why would they want to destroy Rayman if the Magician wants Rayman alive? If Rayman dies, there won't be Lums for the Magician. Also, why would the Magician want Rayman to attack his own army just to get back the Lums that he already had? that's redundant and selfdestructive. It is possible that the Magician just hired three Lividstones and a Hunter for his escape; it's nothing special. --[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 22:22, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::::Wasn't Mr. Dark trying to destroy Polokus in the script? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 09:04, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::::Yes, because Polokus is responsible of those nightmares, remember?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 03:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::::::No, Jano was. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 10:17, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::::::Wait, as far as I'm aware Jano is only responsible for the Darktoons. There are no direct evidences that Jano created other things. Plus, it is mentioned that it is Polokus' nightmares who create the corrupted versions of the Four Kings. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 12:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::Start of the game, a sane Bubble Dreamer blows out a monster Daisy bubble. Why does he willingly give the heroes another monster to fight? Also, Polokus' nightmare form is Jano, so Jano created the monster Kings. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 15:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::Did you read my edit earlier? Jano is NOT another form of Polokus; that was a translation error. As for the scene at the beginning of the game, it clearly isn't meant to be taken literally, as it shows him bubbling Betilla and the Magician out of his pipe, even though we know they had both existed long before that. It's just to demonstrate Polokus's power/position to the player by showing that he is bubble-dreaming everything into existence. If you want an in-story explanation, you could say that he's dreaming about characters he's already created. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 15:26, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

i think Mr.Dark's the main villain of the entire series --[[User:Leondude|Leon]] 09:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

:That's the nice thing about fan-fiction: you can think whatever you want. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

::It would been better if you ignored the quote. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 14:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

:::Oh God, not him again. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 08:45, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

== Finally the truth ==

Mr. Dark is not the Magician... I asked Gabrielle Shrager (one member of the staff) for an explanation and she answered:

"He's a Teensy usurper! A huge fan of Mr. Dark ( did u see the illustrations in his secret hide out? There's an I love mr dark poster somewhere."

If you don't trust me then I can show you an image... :) —[[Image:Easy Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] [[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] [[Image:Hard Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] 16:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

: Mind=blown —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 17:56, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

::I think we already reached that conclusion since a long time ago. Sources of her reply, please? --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 18:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

:::I was more taken aback by the communication itself than the information contained in it. Anyway – did you meet Gabrielle Shrager in person, or was it an email exchange? We already know that the Magician is a Mr Dark fan, but some concrete proof would be great. I'd also like to correct the Wikipedia articles, which are woefully misleading, but have strict standards about citations. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 18:37, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

::::I send her a message in facebook... Here's the pic http://i43.tinypic.com/iohoo5.jpg —[[Image:Easy Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] [[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] [[Image:Hard Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] 09:49, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::That's great to see; now we can stop being so vague in the articles and just tell it like it is. But it might be a good idea not to broadcast this on the forums – once people find out that Shrager answers messages, I just know they're going to swarm her, and that's not what we want (...is it?). —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 12:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::RaySpola, thank you very much 8D! Not only for asking Shrager, but also to show us the proof that she replied you. At least we can officially confirm what me and others speculated before: the Teensie is indeed a Mr. Dark admirer. This is great. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 13:23, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::Thanks... Anyway it's better that the picture remains only in the Raywiki I think... —[[Image:Easy Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] [[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] [[Image:Hard Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] 13:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::::Yeah, I would not recommend either to post in the forums, for the exact reasons that Spiral pointed. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:07, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

== Could it be Mr. Dark? ==

[[File:Char-mr-dark.png|150px]]

Under this image and in the article, I read that this character has been identified has the Magician disguised as Mr. Dark.

Well... I know about the fact that Ales Mansay is the bad guy of Rayman Origins and that he is an admirer of Mr. Dark. And I agree with that.

But... What prove that this Teensie is the Magician? (Apart a similar hair style... or wig)

I mean, as Sergiomonty said, this image is used to illustrate the article of Mr. Dark on the official website of Rayman Origins. We know that it was planned that Mr. Dark appears in the game, when it was a prequel to the first Rayman game. But, like for the Soldiers and the Piranhas, this article haven't been removed from the site after the change of the story.

So, why this character couldn't be Mr. Dark himself?-- [[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 16:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

:In the early Rayman Origins it should be him, but since he was ultimately scrapped, this image is a scrapped picture aswell. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 17:53, 21 December 2012 (CET)

::Absolutely. But if this character is really Mr. Dark, I think that this image, although it's a scrapped picture, proves us something:

::When the developers have decided to bring Mr. Dark in the game, they have decided to change his appearance, because he was a limbless being, like the other characters from the first game.

::And, as for the Magician and the Photographer, they have decided to "turn him" into a Teensie.

::Shouldn't we speak about this project in the article?-- [[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 23:18, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

:::Although that's the most probable reason that lead the RO Mr. Dark to have a redesign, I don't think its strictally necessary to mention it in the wiki, I believe people do the link easily. Unless the other members in the staff do think it should be contained, then I'll align ultimately. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 12:15, 22 December 2012 (CET)

::::This only took ten years, but this has finally been addressed. See the discussion [[Talk:The Magician#Mr. Dark as a name|here]] for more details. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 21:10, 1 October 2023 (CEST)

== Rayman Mini ==

{{quote|In the 1.2.0 update it was discovered in the game files that Mr Dark is planned to return in the next content update.}}

:Indeed it is, thanks for noticing it! I've fixed it now --[[File:Carrot signature.png|75px|link=User:Raycarrot]] 16:21, 3 October 2020 (CEST)

== Fanart in gallery ==

Forgive me if any of this is out of line, I haven't made any meaningful contributions to a wiki since I was 10 and on Wikipedia, but I thought I should check in here before accidentally starting an edit war. The file [[:File:Mr. Dark in Rayman (1995).png|Mr. Dark in Rayman (1995).png]] is fanart by [https://www.deviantart.com/kittydemonchild/art/Rayman-Mr-Dark-50399534 kittydemonchild on DeviantArt], and incorrectly labeled as official art--understandably so. It's been here for a couple weeks now, and I felt like I should say something since no one else has.

—[[User:Arcueid|Arcueid]] ([[User talk:Arcueid|talk]]) 00:34, 30 July 2021 (CEST)

== Page locked? ==

What happened? Why the Mr. Dark article Is locked? What's the motive that led to its lock? [[User:Purple bubble|Purple bubble]] ([[User talk:Purple bubble|talk]]) 21:51, 26 September 2023 (CEST)

:I have answered your question in detail [[User talk:Hunchman801#Mr. Dark and The Magician locked indefinitely? Isn't it a little excessive?|here]]. Please follow those instructions for a quick resolution of the issue. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 01:27, 27 September 2023 (CEST)

== Reasons? ==

Could the user(s) give a valid and coherent reason of why they don't wanna let me edit the article in peace and keep reverting all my edits? Because I didn't get any so far! [[User:Purple bubble|Purple bubble]] ([[User talk:Purple bubble|talk]]) 22:01, 26 September 2023 (CEST)

:As a consequence of the OP's failure to follow the resolution process detailed [[User talk:Hunchman801#Mr. Dark and The Magician locked indefinitely? Isn't it a little excessive?|here]], this debate is now closed. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:29, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 :It is happening the same thing to me. Huuuuunch? --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:11, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 :It's the same for me. It's a problem for every image! —[[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] 20:38, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
-:The problem should be solved now, I was able to upload the image: see [[:File:Mrdarkteensie1.jpg]]. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
+:The problem should be solved now, I was able to upload the image: see File:Mrdarkteensie1.jpg. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:06, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
-[[Image:RaymanSaturnFin.jpg]]
+[[Image:Rayman Saturn Moons.png]]
 The same image can be found in the [[Moons]] article, so there's no reason to repeat it. Also, some space is required, because there's a new image of Mr Dark (The one from Rayman Origins) that should be used as his new profile picture (because it's the newest). The place where it's situated right now deforms the wiki, so I'm going to replace the picture of Mr Dark using his binoculars with the new image from Rayman Origins, and then I'm going replace the irrelevant picture of the moons with the image of Mr Dark using his binoculars (so it won't get lost).--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 04:16, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
@@ Line 73: / Line 73: @@
 Okay then, but I'm still not convinced enough... --[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:19, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
+Okay, I'm back. I seriously can't agree with the direction that this article is taking.  Since the Magician has been proven to be something different from Mr Dark, the previous discussion is irrelevant at this point. We can still suggest this Hybrid-vs-Transformation as a very valid theory, but not just state it like it's obvious, because it isn't. There's a health bar that could simply mean Mr Dark's resources, even if previous bosses had a health bar. There's still no explanation to the two Moskito Mammas, and talking about clonation would be going way too far into speculation. So far, opinions about this have been divided in RPC, so I suggest to change the explanation of the boss battle into something more concrete, and then comment that the Atari Jaguar version suggests that those hybrids were in fact Mr Dark himself. Not just say "THIS IS A FACT" and call it a day.--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] ([[User talk:Sergiomonty|talk]]) 07:22, 30 September 2013 (CEST)
 ==Mr Dark vs the Magician==
@@ Line 107: / Line 109: @@
 :::Hmmm, I don't think that's something important at all. Possibly two different artists made each hat, or they made the in-game hat thicker to make it easy to jump on. However, if we're talking about the "Magician's hat", then that information shouldn't be posted on Mr Dark's article, as it doesn't have anything to do with Mr Dark.--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 19:50, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
+:At this stage I'm almost totally convinced that the Magician is simply an admirer of Mr Dark. The turning point came when I finally got the game and noticed that it contained no references to Mr Dark being the source of the invasion (which I had previously thought was the case). The information from the official site is reproduced in the manual, but the part about Mr Dark was removed, and so were the similarly erroneous sections about piranhas and Soldier insects. The mistake about Jano being Polokus was also corrected. I can only conclude that the site wasn't proof-read or fact-checked, allowing some incorrect information and an out-of-date picture of 'Mr Dark' to slip in. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:06, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+::That's the exact point I've written in the RPC after beating the game by myself. I also believe the Magician is just an admirer of Mr. Dark, not only due to the way the Reveal cutscene was made in terms of body language, but also by the inexistence of direct evidences for the contrary. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:55, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::We can say that the guy in this artwork is totally Mr Dark [[File:Char-mr-dark.png|150px]], because the website describes him as the original Mr Dark from Rayman 1. Mr Dark's body is thinner than the Magician's, has enormous feet and wears a black robe instead of purple; the star pull-off may just represent that he just wanted to become like him. The fake wig on his head also may be an indirect symbol of his fanaticism (remember? he was blonde before!). If you look carefully, Mr Dark's body looks a lot like the Photographer's [[File:CrazyPhotographer-info-1.png|150px]], possibly due an early design for the teensies: bigger eyes, bigger hands and feet, thinner bodies, and stylized noses. It is possible that both were scrapped when the game became a sequel. Mr Dark supposedly died in the GBC version of Rayman 2, anyway...--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 22:41, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::Correction: GBC version of Rayman 1. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 23:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::If you look closely at that 'Mr Dark' character's nose, you'll see that it bears a dark zig-zig which is exactly the same as the one on the Magician's nose, which, combined with the similar hair, hat and general appearance pretty much confirms that it's just the Magician in disguise. Most of the Teensies in the game have slightly quirky noses with unique little patterns on them; the Grand Minimus has smooth spirals, the fire Teensy has jagged spirals, the zombie Teensy has skull markings. I think the information on the site is a simple mistake, or maybe a holdover from an earlier version of the game, like the Soldiers or the piranhas. That's why no trace of it remains in the manual. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:18, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::Are you saying that the picture of 'Mr Dark' is possibly an early artwork of him before the game stopped being a sequel? Because I would believe that; In fact, it is very notable that the developers created the Magician based on the scrapped artwork of Mr Dark. Tons of materials from the website look more based on the prequel than the final game itself. By the way, I checked if it was a mistake (just like the Polokus/Jano alter-ego issues) and it isn't, in every language, even french, it says that the guy on the artwork is Mr Dark from Rayman 1. I want some opinions here: can we change "'''The mysterious villain of Rayman Origins'''" to "'''Early artwork of Mr Dark, subsequently used to redesign the Magician'''".?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 03:52, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::It's not necessarily from when the game was a prequel – it could could still be from the sequel era. Maybe they originally planned to have this 'Mr Dark' appear and taunt Rayman throughout the game, only to be unmasked as the Magician at the end, which is where the 'I always wanted to be like Mr Dark' dialogue would occur. Referring to him as 'Mr Dark' on the site could have been part of a deception, like the above example of the original Metroid manual referring to Samus as a male. If I'm right, they may have scrapped this because they didn't want the storyline to be too confusing or too dependent on knowledge of the other games, or they may not have wanted to disappoint players by leading them to believe Mr Dark was in the game, only to reveal at the last minute that it wasn't him. The storyline that survives into the game itself is much more straightforward: the Magician turns bad, with no confusing disguises involved. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+Wikipedia has an easier plot so Mr.Dark escapes the land of the livid dead (since the magician done his bit by adding a microphone)next he disguises himself as the magician and collect lums then caught he takes of his disguise and pulls a lever next he runs and jumps on a warship and KABOOM now it leads to this this question did he survive --[[User:Leondude|Leon]] 09:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
+:And suddenly Wikipedia is God. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 19:08, 30 March 2012 (CEST)
 ==Mr. Dark: Root Of All Evil?==
@@ Line 123: / Line 142: @@
 :This kind of open-ended speculative discussion would probably do better in the forum. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 15:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
+::I agree with Spiral, but in fact those are pertinent theories. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 17:35, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
+::: Indeed, many of the theories given are solid enough to be mentioned on the wiki. However, I have to disagree with...well... a little piece of nothing that doesn't change anything; it was confirmed sometime ago that Polokus and Jano aren't the same character, it was just a traslation issue on the english website. Also, it is possible that Darktoons, although being created by Jano, can do what they want, and join the evil force in which they feel confortable, for example, some may join Mr Dark/The Magician, while some may join the Livid Dead. If the Magician really had an alliance with ALL of the Darktoons, why would he have to use a dirty trick like a hidden microphone to start a war between Rayman and the Darktoons, if he only needed to call his darktoon army to attack them directly?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::Maybe he wanted the Granny to do some of the work whilst Mr Dark started building Moody Clouds? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 18:09, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::Mr Dark sending a Granny to kill Rayman? that's... crude.--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::Hey, it's possible. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 18:36, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::Was it neccesary to use the microphone? If they were allies he would simply go and ask her for help--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 18:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::Maybe the Granny needed to be provoked and the microphone was the only way of hearing them. Maybe they were listening to their every sound and they just fell asleep and started snoring. Maybe Mr Dark didn't plan for the snoring to annoy them. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 19:12, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::::And maybe that's not Mr Dark at all. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 19:48, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::::True, true. By the way, Mr Dark or not, that doesn't proof that the Darktoons at the opening cinematic worked for him, and the theory of the granny and the microphone sounds very hypothetical. As Spiraldoor said before, Darktoons are just bad guys, they don't seem to have any main ruler, you can see that in Rayman 2. The Magician is a weak guy and a jerk, people bullied him during childhood, so he doesn't seem to have any control over the nightmarish creatures; in fact, his plan IS to destroy those nightmarish creatures with his gigantic machines, remember? that's written on the script. If every lividstone in the game worked for the Magician, why would they want to destroy Rayman if the Magician wants Rayman alive? If Rayman dies, there won't be Lums for the Magician. Also, why would the Magician want Rayman to attack his own army just to get back the Lums that he already had? that's redundant and selfdestructive. It is possible that the Magician just hired three Lividstones and a Hunter for his escape; it's nothing special. --[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 22:22, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::::::Wasn't Mr. Dark trying to destroy Polokus in the script? --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 09:04, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::::::Yes, because Polokus is responsible of those nightmares, remember?--[[User:Sergiomonty|Sergiomonty]] 03:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::No, Jano was. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 10:17, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::::::::Wait, as far as I'm aware Jano is only responsible for the Darktoons. There are no direct evidences that Jano created other things. Plus, it is mentioned that it is Polokus' nightmares who create the corrupted versions of the Four Kings. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 12:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::::Start of the game, a sane Bubble Dreamer blows out a monster Daisy bubble. Why does he willingly give the heroes another monster to fight? Also, Polokus' nightmare form is Jano, so Jano created the monster Kings. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 15:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+::::::::::::::::Did you read my edit earlier? Jano is NOT another form of Polokus; that was a translation error. As for the scene at the beginning of the game, it clearly isn't meant to be taken literally, as it shows him bubbling Betilla and the Magician out of his pipe, even though we know they had both existed long before that. It's just to demonstrate Polokus's power/position to the player by showing that he is bubble-dreaming everything into existence. If you want an in-story explanation, you could say that he's dreaming about characters he's already created. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 15:26, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
+i think Mr.Dark's the main villain of the entire series --[[User:Leondude|Leon]] 09:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
+:That's the nice thing about fan-fiction: you can think whatever you want. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 13:37, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
+::It would been better if you ignored the quote. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 14:44, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
+:::Oh God, not him again. --[[User:Iheckler9|iHeckler9]][[File:Life.gif|link=User:Iheckler9]] 08:45, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
+== Finally the truth ==
+Mr. Dark is not the Magician... I asked Gabrielle Shrager (one member of the staff) for an explanation and she answered:
+"He's a Teensy usurper! A huge fan of Mr. Dark ( did u see the illustrations in his secret hide out? There's an I love mr dark poster somewhere."
+If you don't trust me then I can show you an image... :) —[[Image:Easy Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] [[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] [[Image:Hard Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] 16:48, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
+: Mind=blown —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 17:56, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
+::I think we already reached that conclusion since a long time ago. Sources of her reply, please? --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 18:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
+:::I was more taken aback by the communication itself than the information contained in it. Anyway – did you meet Gabrielle Shrager in person, or was it an email exchange? We already know that the Magician is a Mr Dark fan, but some concrete proof would be great. I'd also like to correct the Wikipedia articles, which are woefully misleading, but have strict standards about citations. —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 18:37, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
+::::I send her a message in facebook... Here's the pic http://i43.tinypic.com/iohoo5.jpg —[[Image:Easy Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] [[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] [[Image:Hard Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] 09:49, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
+:::::That's great to see; now we can stop being so vague in the articles and just tell it like it is. But it might be a good idea not to broadcast this on the forums – once people find out that Shrager answers messages, I just know they're going to swarm her, and that's not what we want (...is it?). —[[User:Spiraldoor|Spiraldoor]] [[File:IconSpiralDoor.png|link=User:Spiraldoor]] 12:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
+:::::RaySpola, thank you very much 8D! Not only for asking Shrager, but also to show us the proof that she replied you. At least we can officially confirm what me and others speculated before: the Teensie is indeed a Mr. Dark admirer. This is great. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 13:23, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
+::::::Thanks... Anyway it's better that the picture remains only in the Raywiki I think... —[[Image:Easy Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] [[User:Rayspola|RaySpola]] [[Image:Hard Race RK.PNG|link=User:Rayspola]] 13:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
+:::::::Yeah, I would not recommend either to post in the forums, for the exact reasons that Spiral pointed. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 15:07, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
+== Could it be Mr. Dark? ==
+[[File:Char-mr-dark.png|150px]]
+Under this image and in the article, I read that this character has been identified has the Magician disguised as Mr. Dark.
+Well... I know about the fact that Ales Mansay is the bad guy of Rayman Origins and that he is an admirer of Mr. Dark. And I agree with that.
+But... What prove that this Teensie is the Magician? (Apart a similar hair style... or wig)
+I mean, as Sergiomonty said, this image is used to illustrate the article of Mr. Dark on the official website of Rayman Origins. We know that it was planned that Mr. Dark appears in the game, when it was a prequel to the first Rayman game. But, like for the Soldiers and the Piranhas, this article haven't been removed from the site after the change of the story.
+So, why this character couldn't be Mr. Dark himself?-- [[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 16:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
+:In the early Rayman Origins it should be him, but since he was ultimately scrapped, this image is a scrapped picture aswell. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 17:53, 21 December 2012 (CET)
+::Absolutely. But if this character is really Mr. Dark, I think that this image, although it's a scrapped picture, proves us something:
+::When the developers have decided to bring Mr. Dark in the game, they have decided to change his appearance, because he was a limbless being, like the other characters from the first game.
+::And, as for the Magician and the Photographer, they have decided to "turn him" into a Teensie.
+::Shouldn't we speak about this project in the article?-- [[User:Boomboleros7|Boomboleros7]] 23:18, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
+:::Although that's the most probable reason that lead the RO Mr. Dark to have a redesign, I don't think its strictally necessary to mention it in the wiki, I believe people do the link easily. Unless the other members in the staff do think it should be contained, then I'll align ultimately. --[[Image:Sparkle.gif]][[User:Haruka|Haruka]][[Image:Sparkle.gif]] 12:15, 22 December 2012 (CET)
+::::This only took ten years, but this has finally been addressed. See the discussion [[Talk:The Magician#Mr. Dark as a name|here]] for more details. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 21:10, 1 October 2023 (CEST)
+== Rayman Mini ==
+{{quote|In the 1.2.0 update it was discovered in the game files that Mr Dark is planned to return in the next content update.}}
+As per the Rayman Mini article, is this not 1.3.0? —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 16:01, 3 October 2020 (CEST)
+:Indeed it is, thanks for noticing it! I've fixed it now --[[File:Carrot signature.png|75px|link=User:Raycarrot]] 16:21, 3 October 2020 (CEST)
+== Fanart in gallery ==
+Forgive me if any of this is out of line, I haven't made any meaningful contributions to a wiki since I was 10 and on Wikipedia, but I thought I should check in here before accidentally starting an edit war. The file [[:File:Mr. Dark in Rayman (1995).png|Mr. Dark in Rayman (1995).png]] is fanart by [https://www.deviantart.com/kittydemonchild/art/Rayman-Mr-Dark-50399534 kittydemonchild on DeviantArt], and incorrectly labeled as official art--understandably so. It's been here for a couple weeks now, and I felt like I should say something since no one else has.
+—[[User:Arcueid|Arcueid]] ([[User talk:Arcueid|talk]]) 00:34, 30 July 2021 (CEST)
+:Thanks for reporting this, the image has now been removed. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 19:13, 30 July 2021 (CEST)
+== Page locked? ==
+What happened? Why the Mr. Dark article Is locked? What's the motive that led to its lock? [[User:Purple bubble|Purple bubble]] ([[User talk:Purple bubble|talk]]) 21:51, 26 September 2023 (CEST)
+:I have answered your question in detail [[User talk:Hunchman801#Mr. Dark and The Magician locked indefinitely? Isn't it a little excessive?|here]]. Please follow those instructions for a quick resolution of the issue. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 01:27, 27 September 2023 (CEST)
+== Reasons? ==
+Could the user(s) give a valid and coherent reason of why they don't wanna let me edit the article in peace and keep reverting all my edits? Because I didn't get any so far! [[User:Purple bubble|Purple bubble]] ([[User talk:Purple bubble|talk]]) 22:01, 26 September 2023 (CEST)
+:As a consequence of the OP's failure to follow the resolution process detailed [[User talk:Hunchman801#Mr. Dark and The Magician locked indefinitely? Isn't it a little excessive?|here]], this debate is now closed. —[[File:RRRGBAIcon8.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon0.gif|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]][[File:RRRGBAIcon1.png|class=sprite|link=User:Hunchman801]] 20:29, 30 September 2023 (CEST)