Rayman 3 scores

[Jona]

Okay, so I was actually trolling with my last post, but you guys had no trouble figuring that one out, haha. Just thought I'd let you know.

Anyway, I've read the discussion about the infinite powerup glitch, and I do have some questions about things that seem unclear, or things I simply missed. Even though I won't ever touch R3 again (I actually gave it away several years ago), it's still interesting to see this discussion about a glitch that allows for pretty big improvements.

As for the thing I'm most curious to, that has to be the places in which the IPG can be triggered. Can this be done in most parts of the game, or is it restricted to specific parts with specific cutscenes?

MandM does raise a good point by mentioning the cheat engine, which would work in every part of the game that has a powerup (which is the vast majority). Thanks to the IPG, it could be hard to tell whether a score was attained by using the glitch or by using the cheat engine (which might not have actual consequences for the maximum scores of every single level, but it's possible that high improvements could possibly be reached with much more ease). That's a problem, but everyone would just have to take each other's word for it that they haven't used a cheat engine.

As for using the glitch to improve scores: If it isn't unreasonably difficult to trigger the IPG, I'd definitely use it if I were still playing the game. However, if I knew that it would be near impossible for other people (playing on different platforms, for example) to trigger the glitch, I'd feel worse for using it. In that regard, the Razoff glitches were pretty questionable back in the day, which I realized, but multiple people were able to trigger the glitch, despite it being almost completely reliant on luck. That was the reason why I didn't feel bad about using the glitch, and I've always been open about these type of things when I still played R3. Also, the Razoff glitch was probably not as big of a deal, since I wasn't even close to scoring 800k in the game when I discovered it. Therefore it was outshadowed by other new scoring possibilities, and everyone considered it acceptable.

This glitch is pretty radical for people who are still playing though, so I can kinda understand the commotion. Especially because it's such an unconventional way to play the game. But I'd personally encourage MandM and others opposed against it to use this glitch anyway and see what they can get done. Even though it's different, you'll still need to puzzle and execute these new combos with skill. Yes, I understand that it's going to be easier since you can start combos from anywhere, whereas before it required a ton of skill to do every combo perfectly. It's pretty stupid, but since it exists and it can be reliably triggered (apparently?), I'd say why not use it too. It'll probably require less skill to achieve maximum scores in several levels, but that seems to be what the game has evolved into.

Anyway it doesn't motivate me to start playing again or anything. The thing that really pushed me over the edge and made me decide to stop playing the game was SBTC, simply because I was finally going to get about 108000 in SBTC with the final combo, and it screwed me over. The first part of the combo went great, it was one of those rare times where I managed to grab all the gems in one combo. Even the final jump towards the green gem was just right (also a rare occasion) but Rayman just flew right through the gem without picking it up, so yeah. That was the moment that made me quit, and never try improving my score seriously again.

I wouldn't say that it's necessary to include a column in the HoF that says if you used the IPG or not (you could still be lying about that anyway, so there's not really a point in that) but as long as everyone's open about how they achieved certain improvements, I'd say it's fine.

After all, that's what I always liked back when I still played R3, to be a completely open book to everyone. I didn't want to keep combos or glitches a secret, I gained much more pleasure by saying 'hey guys, look what I found here!' so people could basically do the same thing. Despite sharing everything I've been the top player for quite a while back in those days, which I was definitely proud of. And I saw that I'm still seventh, so that's pretty nice, haha.

But to share what you know about the game and how you use it to attain improvements, is probably what everyone should do to avoid heated discussions like this. I've always done that, and I haven't had anything but positive reactions to that. If someone wants to go ahead and use the cheat engine for easy improvements in levels like FC (at least I'd guess that would be possible) that would be weak, and it should probably be noticed immediately by everyone here anyway. But again, if the glitch can be triggered in a way that is decently reliable, I'd use it and see what I can get done, and I'd definitely say in which parts I triggered the glitch, because that's a crucial detail.

[DTUCC]

Okay, so I was actually trolling with my last post, but you guys had no trouble figuring that one out, haha. Just thought I'd let you know.

i must admit, i was a little shocked by your post at first, but i soon realised you were not serious at all

anyway, as for your questions, here we go:
the ipg can only be triggered in specific places, with specific cutscenes. as cut explained earlier (here and here), the glitch is triggered by creating a glitchy mixed-state between in-game and cutscene. so far, this is either done by entering a certain place on the map that somehow makes the camera "shake" while it's playing a cutscene (TOTL), or making the game trigger two different cutscenes at once (LOTLD).

the second method is barely an option as there are not many places in the game that allow for that. as for the first method, it should be possible to trigger those in some other places. the crucial factor here however is, that you have to be able to reach this specific place on the map WHILE the cutscene plays, meaning that in most cases (if not all) you'll have to be mid-air when the cutscene starts playing AND a specific place like this must exist as well.

as you can imagine, after we learned about the ipg, we turned the game upside down in search of more so we could get a greater understanding of the glitch, but so far, we only triggered the one in LOTLD. i'm convinced there are more, though!

As for using the glitch to improve scores: If it isn't unreasonably difficult to trigger the IPG, I'd definitely use it if I were still playing the game.

it really isn't. all in all, the razoff glitch and the snowboard-launch are far more difficult/luck based to pull off. i had a quite good success rate with the ipg in TOTL (about 4 out of 5 tries were successful). at first, there was the issue whether the glitch would work in PC (the speedrunners believed it didn't) but Cut und MG managed to activate it on PC, too!

Yes, I understand that it's going to be easier since you can start combos from anywhere, whereas before it required a ton of skill to do every combo perfectly. It's pretty stupid, but since it exists and it can be reliably triggered (apparently?), I'd say why not use it too. It'll probably require less skill to achieve maximum scores in several levels, but that seems to be what the game has evolved into.

it's not particularly "easier" imo since you just have a lot more possibilities to choose from. i can see where you're coming from, though. however, i cannot stress enough how the ipb has turned TOTL from one of the easiest levels in the game to the most challenging non-luck based level there is. sure, it makes scoring in LOTLD a lot easier, but it's not like LOTLD was a big issue to begin with. and as you already said, in most levels we have escessive amounts of points anyway.

MandM does raise a good point by mentioning the cheat engine, which would work in every part of the game that has a powerup (which is the vast majority). Thanks to the IPG, it could be hard to tell whether a score was attained by using the glitch or by using the cheat engine (which might not have actual consequences for the maximum scores of every single level, but it's possible that high improvements could possibly be reached with much more ease). That's a problem, but everyone would just have to take each other's word for it that they haven't used a cheat engine.

we've had do take each other's word ever since MG's discovery was released, I don't see why, suddenly, this should at all be a problem. Furthermore, we have the luxury of being able to manually moderate the HoF on RPC, which means we can get rid of unwanted/suspect entries whenever we wish to do so.

[Jona]

I see, so basically the glitch only allows for improvements in TOTL at this time. Can it be triggered in part 1 too, or only in part 2? It does seem hard, despite having infinite powerups, to get the maximum score in part 2 already, where previously the easiest way was to simply use the green gem in part 4 to get a score of 104499. I believe the maximum for the first part was already about 58000 though, so it doesn't seem impossible. But yeah I haven't played that level for the longest time, so I'm just rambling really, I don't know all the positions of the gems and enemies and everything.

If it's only specific to this level, then it doesn't seem to affect the game that much, at least so far. I can imagine that triggering it in a level like the Fairy Council, or even CF could potentially lead to more improvements. At worst it would make combo's easier, since you wouldn't have to worry about the powerup running out. That's a pretty good advantage to have.

[MandM81]

Jona: Xenon and I investigated TOTL a few years ago with the intent of finding a way to a new maximum score. With these improvements we could get 60k+ points in part 1. We could probably have found a few more points had we not come to realise we couldn't collect the amount of points needed in part 2 for the mission to be a success. A quick calculation shows that even with the IPG, you probably need 66k - 68k in part 1.

So you're question is relevant, is IPG used in part 1 as well? I'm sure CC can answer this question.

Sfn, Cut and CC all claim the IPG has been used only in TOTL part 2, and TLOTLD part 2, where it's fairly redundant.

Yet, Cut has a score of 117k+ in Clearleaf Forest, and CC has a score of 111k+ points. I'd like to know how they suddenly found an extra 20k - 30k points in Clearleaf Forest if they didn't use an IPG in this level?

So my question is, was the IPG or a similar glitch used in CF? Can we see videos of the glitches used so we can see if they can be triggered on all platforms?

Some of my objections against allowing the IPG into the HoF has been, we don't know the extent of it and the fact that it can be used as a cover for using other methods. For instance, how is a score 117k reached in CF if it's not done with the use of IPG?

Simple calculations suggest you need to trigger an IPG in CF part 1 and part 3 at least. You probably need it in part 2 as well.

Jona: I urge you to try and play TLOTLD part 2 with the swim glitch and the IPG. Then you can tell me if it's a Rayman game you'd like to play. Also, I'd be anxious to know if you can trigger the glitch at all.

[DTUCC]

I see, so basically the glitch only allows for improvements in TOTL at this time. Can it be triggered in part 1 too, or only in part 2? It does seem hard, despite having infinite powerups, to get the maximum score in part 2 already, where previously the easiest way was to simply use the green gem in part 4 to get a score of 104499. I believe the maximum for the first part was already about 58000 though, so it doesn't seem impossible. But yeah I haven't played that level for the longest time, so I'm just rambling really, I don't know all the positions of the gems and enemies and everything.

yeah, i remember back when 58k after part 1 was a pretty big deal, but it turned out there were a lot more points to be found in part 1. also, there is no ipg involved in the improvement there. it's crazy how much you can achieve when you really try to squeeze every point out of every part. FC is another prime example, where we went from 44.500 to 48.500 by now. i guess we never did that for other parts of the game since there simply was no need to do so.

That's a pretty good advantage to have.

This pretty much sums up my entire feelings towards the ipg in one sentence

Some of my objections against allowing the IPG into the HoF has been, we don't know the extent of it and the fact that it can be used as a cover for using other methods. For instance, how is a score 117k reached in CF if it's not done with the use of IPG?

Simple calculations suggest you need to trigger an IPG in CF part 1 and part 3 at least. You probably need it in part 2 as well.

simple math just isn't enough then, i guess.

as i said, all of the combos in CF were pretty suboptimal since we never needed to improve them. i know that's a massive improvement we made, but you can rest assured that no IPGs were involved. finding one in part 1 would be pretty optimal, whereas an ipg in part 3 would at least allow for some improvements, i guess. an ipg in part 2 would be pretty unspectacular, to be honest. I'm convinced something is possible.

[MandM81]

simple math just isn't enough then, i guess.

as i said, all of the combos in CF were pretty suboptimal since we never needed to improve them. i know that's a massive improvement we made, but you can rest assured that no IPGs were involved. finding one in part 1 would be pretty optimal, whereas an ipg in part 3 would at least allow for some improvements, i guess. an ipg in part 2 would be pretty unspectacular, to be honest. I'm convinced something is possible.

You being deliberately vague was to be expected I guess. But improving combos with a gain of 30k points in CF is something that requires some form of validation, especially since it is claimed to be without the use of the IPG or similar glitches.

I will ask Cut to explain this staggering improvement.

[Cut]

with a gain of 30k points

In your solution, the maximum after part 3 is 99,5k. With some smaller improvements found by Jona (?) it rounds up to 100k. As my score is 117,3k, the improvement is exactly 17,3k and not 20 or even 30k points. And yep, 17,3k points is exactly what can be found in Clearleaf Forest without an IPG or anything similar to that.

[MandM81]

Cut: What is your score after part 1? And after part 2?

[DTUCC]

But improving combos with a gain of 30k points in CF is something that requires some form of validation

..really, that's what it comes down to?

okay, so i don't know who you think you are, but you, dear sir, are in no position to ask for any form of validation from anyone who you don't like to see in the HoF, especially since i, MG and cut have been highly accomplished players for years.

you haven't updated the FC solution in years, and never have i demanded any sort of validation from you at all. in fact, no one has. yet you go out and want people to give an account of their improvements because you're so caught up in the entire "is the ipg good or bad"-discussion that you think we, as players, are unable to reach any improvements without using gamebreaking methods. there have been a lot of offences thrown around over the course of this discussion, but the blunt disregard for and discrespect towards our abilities as players expressed by your statement shows me that there is no agreement to be found.

over the course of this discussion, let's see people's reactions to the ipg: i, sfn42, cut, MG, Sajiki, Jona, RibShark and, to an extend, raymancool_bis have all expressed acceptance towards the use of ipg.
on the other hand, you and Adsolution were the only ones to denounce the use of ipg. granted, Xenon is not a big fan of the method either, but he at least >stated< that he has mixed feelings towards banning the use of the ipg or adding another column to the hall of fame.

as you can see, this has never been a discussion between the german "gaming culture" (as you like to call it) and the rpc. there were quite a few rpc members that don't see any problems in the usage of the ipg. yet, i never wanted a public vote since i was hoping we could come to terms and find a solution everyone can agree on (or at least one that doesn't involve marking players as if they used underhanded methods in order to further boost their scores).

your response, however, starts expressing doubts towards the validity of our scores as if we were some low-level cheaters busting into the hall of fame, taking over first place.

i am not willing to continue this argument if it means we'll have to deal with insults of this magnitude. here is a final comprimise i have to offer, insipred by rolesfamily:



We'll leave the HoF as it is, but agree to immediately release every newfound glitch we come across. since those require mostly luck to be found, i believe it is unhealthy for the competition to hide them from the community. i do admit it was not right to hide the use of the ipg from the members of RPC at first, but i want to express once more that i never had any bad intentions in doing so.

ever since MG's discovery we had to run the HoF mostly based on trust, so I see no reason to not continue doing this. personally, i have no problem with revealing any further ipgs or other glitches right away if i happen to find any. i hope all the other competitors in the HoF have an equal sportsmanship, if we manage to agree on this.

after all, if we aren't able to take each other's word for granted, we are soon going to have heated discussions about every single HoF entry we face. we can still get rid of any sudden obscure entries that fail to make a decent point about their scores. after 10 years of playing R3 and using the HoF, i think we should be able to distinguish cheaters from honest players.

this puts everyone on equal footing from a combo making standpoint. you can then choose to either adapt to the changes the game offers or not. after all, players always needed to adapt to what the game had offered. some people did adapt to the razoff glitch, the lums glitch, the snowboard-launch or whatever comes to mind, others chose not to. it's everyone's free decission to play the game in whatever way pleases him or her. sure, we did decide to exclude MG's discovery from the HoF, but the main arguments were that, first of all, it makes scoring completely redundant, and second of all, it is exclusive to PC.


anyone, feel free to comment on this proposal as much as you like, but please refrain from insulting me any further. if we can't come to an agreement this way, there's always the possibility of having a public vote or leaving the issue unresolved. i am done arguing, though.

[MandM81]

..really, that's what it comes down to?

okay, so i don't know who you think you are, but you, dear sir, are in no position to ask for any form of validation from anyone who you don't like to see in the HoF, especially since i, MG and cut have been highly accomplished players for years.

Calm down now. It's a reasonable question and I am in a position to ask about this, so is everyone else in this forum. The question is even more pertinent as the sudden boost in CF coincides with TOTL, where you used the IPG.

If trust is an issue with you, why didn't you trust the RPC with your use of IPG in the first place instead of trying to hide it?

As for the HoF, I would like to see you all in there, but without the IPG.

[Jona]

MandM: I don't actually have the game anymore, so I can't try it out. I'm not really interested in doing that either, though. I watched a video of that swimming glitch on LOTLD part 2, and to be honest I can't deduce from that video how the glitch is triggered at all. It does look pretty crazy, that's all I can say about that really. I have never figured out any wallglitches that could be useful, the only thing I had happen to me a few times was falling into voids. In part 2 of TLS there's a room in which you can fall into a blue void, for example. But anyhow, I'm not interested in playing the game to improve my score anymore. The SBTC frustration was just too much for me to handle, lol. From that day on I realized I would only spend a lot of time on that game just to get frustrated everytime, I figured that wasn't too healthy.

Anyhow, being able to trigger an IPG could help with the scoring in some levels, like TOTL, but in other levels it probably wouldn't even matter, since most combos have been done with powerups for a long time. Yeah, it does make it easier, and you can start the combo from anywhere you want, that does definitely help. But yeah, this is probably the only way to improve your score in TOTL, and I would personally just go with that and see what I can get done. That is, if I still cared about scoring points. After all, this would still involve playing the game the real way, and it's still not like you're hacking the game. From what I understand TOTL is still challenging enough even with the IPG. It just gives you more time to prepare combos, and you can look at the part in a completely new way, which does seem interesting. You could use the chopper to go everywhere on the map, change to the Lockjaw when necessary, and see what new combos can be done.

Anyway, I think you guys shouldn't argue so much. As long as changes or glitches can be done by every player, then I don't consider them to be unfair. And my opinion is that it's best to be open about any improvements that have been made by anyone. Proving it with a video or anything like that would be a little extreme, but a simple explanation would be enough. After all, the game now has so many glitches that allow for improvements that it's nothing but fair to ask for an explanation on how scores are achieved. I believe that was already the case back when I still played, and I always strived to explain how I achieved improvements. If everyone did so, there would be no need to accuse others of cheating or keeping new discoveries in the dark.

Maybe that's just me, and I'm just gonna leave that as a tip for you guys: I believe the R3 competition is much more fun if everyone's open to each other about discoveries, and that it's not so much about who has the highest score, but more about how far you can milk the game without using hacks or cheats. And that's something you guys should do as a team.

[sfn42]

It's a reasonable question and I am in a position to ask about this

No, you're not. And that's the point here. Since pretty much the start of the discussion you have been disrespectful to us, you keep trying to bully us, you keep trying to threaten us, you keep diminishing our accomplishments. When you act like that towards a group of people, you give away all rights to demand anything from them. Yet, you keep disrespecting us and you keep demanding. The following sentence is proof of that.

As for the HoF, I would like to see you all in there, but without the IPG.

You demand that everyone play the game your way and if they don't, they should be banned from the competition. Such a demand is egotistical and infantile beyond belief. I fully agree with CC. You have crossed a line by now which makes it impossible to continue this discussion with you.

Anyhow, being able to trigger an IPG could help with the scoring in some levels, like TOTL, but in other levels it probably wouldn't even matter, since most combos have been done with powerups for a long time.

That's definitely true. There are at most four levels for which an IPG would possibly matter: FC, CF, SBTC and TOTL. In all the other levels, it might make certain combos easier because you wouldn't have to worry about a powerup running out or you could use a red or yellow can to make things easier in combos where you had use a blue can before. But in the grand scheme of things, it wouldn't change anything because we are pretty fixated on the maximum combos. In a level like HH or LOTLD there just aren't any bigger combos available. We were extremely lucky with TOTL because we got the IPG in the part of the game where it is the most valuable. In FC, we might be able to make small improvements and, ideally, even out the disadvantage of the missing green can on GC in part 4. In SBTC, we could possibly make the whole snowboarding part obsolete (and that would be great) but we would need about 20000 extra points in part 2 and that's a tall order, even with an IPG. We have investigated part 2 but we didn't find anything except for possible problems for an IPG in this part, the most significant being the low number of cutscenes and the problem with the red can in the middle section which only appears when you beat the lavomatrizes, therefore making any idea of connecting the first two big combos by playing the backwards obsolete. So, it's unlikely that the IPG would really make a difference there. Meanwhile, CC and Cut have already talked about CF a little bit.

[MandM81]

Sfn: It doesn't help the discussions that you and CC react hysterically when asked about the recent results in R3. You all react defensively and lash out at everyone who dares to pose a question or express doubts about certain glitches.

I have a right to oppose the IPG as well as other players do. At the same time I have tried to find out to what extent it can be used and what impact it will have on the overall game.

As for asking about the massive improvement by Cut, it is legitimate for everyone in this forum to ask how it did come about. Whatever you and CC chose to read into such questions is your business.

I'll ask Cut directly, so please Sfn and CC, lower your weapons.

For Cut: You didn't use the IPG in CF, as I understand. Did you use other "new" glitches?

And what is your score in CF after part 1 and after part 2?

[Adsolution]

You demand that everyone play the game your way and if they don't, they should be banned from the competition. Such a demand is egotistical and infantile beyond belief.

To make an equivalent comparison, isn't viewing a simple signification of your 'alternative' methods in the Hall of Fame as the same thing as banning you entirely egotistical and infantile beyond belief?

Just for instance, one of the reasons I feel this might be useful is so that users who haven't stumbled across IPG or other obscure glitches that probably no one would ever find without a ridiculous amount of luck will understand how you got such a score. Simple, isn't it? Yet you view it as an utter atrocity. I reinstate for the thousandth time: Something along the lines of this suggestion isn't a banning (how the fuck is it?), it's a signification for public accessibility.

It doesn't help either that you're so ridiculously militant. An argument may be presented to you, and you have a dorky fit and condescend like mad - basically, what MandM stated in the first part of his post above - and the only thing getting in the way of you being okay with such a simple thing as a signification is your obnoxious pride. I don't have a problem with people being vocal as long as it doesn't obscure their point, but you are being repugnant.


(I'm just laughing at the bare notion of how anyone can go as far as to call MandM condescending when we have sfn here.)

[Cut]

For Cut: You didn't use the IPG in CF, as I understand. Did you use other "new" glitches?

You didn't use the IPG in FC, as I understand. Did you use other "new" glitches?

And what is your score in CF after part 1 and after part 2?

And what is your score in FC after part 2, part 3 and after part 4?

[Xenon]

In SBTC, we could possibly make the whole snowboarding part obsolete (and that would be great)

Leaving aside the HOF, do you really think that would be great? To allow a glitch to totally diminish the playability of TSBTC and the challenges it demands? I dislike playing the snowboarding part as much as you do, but it's part of the game and part of the great challenge of R3. I struggle to believe that you'd still be passionate about the IPG if it allowed you to remove the biggest obstacle in TSBTC and possibly the whole game.

[sfn42]

I believe in fair challenge, challenge based on skill. The snowboarding part is not based on skill, rather on a mix of luck and perseverance. In my opinion, it is among the three least playable parts in the entire game. Therefore, an IPG that allowed you to get the same score or just barely more or less than snowboarding would actually increase playability because it would remove the element of luck of the snowboarding and emphasize and enhance the skill required in part 2. You'd have to play parts one and two near perfectly, in order to even have a chance at getting 110k+ and that's a tall order. Besides, the way part 2 is set up, I don't think that there is an IPG and even if there was, it wouldn't be worth enough points (I've discussed this in my previous post in more detail).

It seems to me that you're having the same misconception here that has been widespread about the TOTL-IPG. The IPG does NOT mean you get your points gift-wrapped. You have to play a ton of hard combos, in order to get a maximum. Plus, you get a chance to play new, exciting and often insanely hard combos that haven't been possible before. For example, in SBTC part 2, imagine a combo that takes all the Hoodlums in the Scaffolding Area in one combo. That would be exciting to me and I'd love to try that combo if it was possible. It isn't, though, because we don't (yet) have an IPG in this part. This is the kind of innovation the IPG brings, as it did in TOTL where we could finally get that green gem in part 2 in an extended combo, something R3-players have strived to do since 2004 or so.

Also, there are downsides to the IPG: You can't see your lifebar, which can lead to some surprising deaths at the worst possible times. Also, try out first person mode after triggering an IPG. You'll find out immediately why the IPG is highly problematic in any part with a matuvu. The point is: The IPG, in my opinion, is not a shortcut, but a new challenge that enrichens the game.

[RibShark]

So it seems, after 10 pages of arguing, no one has come up with a solution that everyone is happy with. In fact, I do not believe it is possible for everyone to agree on a solution, due to widely differing opinions. Perhaps the best thing to do now would be to find the solution that the most people are happy with. One way that this could be done is by a vote, where anyone can propose a solution and then after a certain amount of time, they can vote on which they agree with the most (so long as they do not vote for their own solution). This seems like it would be the fairest way of doing things, and it would put an end to this argument meaning people could go and score while being certain on what they can do/not do using IPG.

[DTUCC]

even though i didn't want a public vote to decide how to handle this whole ipg-situation, i come to realise there is probably no other way to handle it. as a time saving alternative, i suggest we take the two suggestions made by mandm and myself and let people decide between those two. you'll have to realise there's no more than 10 people that tried to contribute to this discussion, so having 4 or 5 different options, we're not going to have the most reliable vote possible.

furthermore, not being allowed to vote for your own suggestions wouldn't be an issue at all, since excluding both MandM and me from the vote pretty much evens out.

there's one concern i have to point out: sfn mentioned earlier that a public vote on forums is easy to manipulate. therefore, i suggest we only allow people to vote that do at least have some kind of record on rpc. i just don't want a bunch of random blank accounts with no posts whatsoever to randomly show up, pick their vote and disappear again.

i'd actually welcome if only people that have actually PLAYED the game to be eligible to vote at all, but i'll leave that to the rest of you to decide. is does make some sense imho, though. the recent discussion has shown that not too many people are interested in this issue at all anyway (and why would those that don't even play the game even bother?).

so, let's see how that goes.

[sfn42]

I agree with RibShark and CC, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any other way to handle it.

Personally, I think that voting should be limited to people who actually contributed to the discussion. They put in the time and effort to think about this issue and showed an interest in the game and in scoring-related issues. They should be rewarded for that. Also, I don't think that the vote should be conducted via anonymous poll, but rather in this thread (everyone posts a short message indicating their preferred choice), it is just much more reliable and valid this way. And I don't get why CC/MandM shouldn't be allowed to vote, just because they provided the general suggestions. It wouldn't make a difference in the end, but I don't thinks it's quite fair.

Just to summarize CC's suggestion (since he didn't do that in his previous post ): No HoF-modifications, but players should reveal any IPGs or glitches of similar magnitude right away in the future.

I'd also like to make a little addition to it: Write a Raywiki article about glitches in Rayman 3, including explanations and videos. This article and the existing article about the scoring system (workings of the combo-mode etc.) can then be linked on top of the HoF, so that beginners can find this information more easily.