Rayman 2

[Droolie]

Now that's unfortunate! I don't suppose that there's a way of checking that it's not also the case for the other two pirates from the Fairy Glade whose HP PluM determined using this technique?

I don't think it's possible with the current version of raymap without editing some code, but luckily I have been working on a rewrite for a while.
I just checked with that version - both pirates are using the default init script, so their HP values should be correct.

The only side effect seems to be that CustomBit 15 doesn't get set to zero during initialization… And I'm not sure what that does / doesn't do…

Seems to be a bit more than that - CustomBits 15 and 6, which are 0 by default on that object, don't get set to 1 either (because AttendRM is skipped too). These bits are the "targetable" and "fightable" bits and determine which objects Rayman can shoot at. That seems to be why in the video, Rayman's projectiles don't auto-target the pirate (I'm not sure if the "fightable" flag has any more effects). AttendRM also sets CustomBit 30 to 1, which, according to a comment in the source code of that AI model in the CPA leak, would scare Globox of that pirate if he was in that level.

Also, this guy is named "MIC_Sbire_Barque" – does that mean Michel Ancel himself put him there and set him up this way?

Nope, but close enough! MIC is also a great game designer, namely Michael Janod.
Well, great except when he's doing stuff like this:

EDIT: No wait, it's nothing to do with music, that can be disabled by setting UByte_1 to zero. In fact, the reason this was done was because the default behaviour is for this type of pirate to drill up out of the ground when Rayman comes near him. Obviously that's not what they wanted here, hence the override!

Nice find! Yeah, this is probably the reason... though they should've added a DsgVar for this instead of changing the init script, bad Michael Janod
Since he was a lead on R3, now I wonder how many times he skipped initialization code in that game. I'm starting to understand why that game is as broken as it is...

 

[Hunchman801]

I don't think it's possible with the current version of raymap without editing some code, but luckily I have been working on a rewrite for a while.
I just checked with that version - both pirates are using the default init script, so their HP values should be correct.

Thanks, that's another two pirates down, then! It looks like the only remaining ones (I'm counting 3) are from the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 versions. Is that something that can be checked easily in RayMap or should we expect similar shenanigans?

 

[PluMGMK]

Well, we could assume that everything's set the same as in PC, but maybe even that's dangerous… The barrel-throwing guy in the Fairy Glade can be checked in Revolution anyway, I just didn't get a chance after the RayWiki login glitch on Sunday…

Seems to be a bit more than that - CustomBits 15 and 6, which are 0 by default on that object, don't get set to 1 either (because AttendRM is skipped too). These bits are the "targetable" and "fightable" bits and determine which objects Rayman can shoot at. That seems to be why in the video, Rayman's projectiles don't auto-target the pirate (I'm not sure if the "fightable" flag has any more effects).

It looks like 15 is set by default though? Or is this not reliable?

AttendRM also sets CustomBit 30 to 1, which, according to a comment in the source code of that AI model in the CPA leak, would scare Globox of that pirate if he was in that level.

That's pretty interesting! So technically you could set CustomBit 30 on any object in the Canopy and Globox would run scared?

Nice find! Yeah, this is probably the reason... though they should've added a DsgVar for this instead of changing the init script, bad Michael Janod

Ah yes. Maybe he felt it wasn't worth the effort for one pirate that isn't even encountered in "normal" gameplay?

Since he was a lead on R3, now I wonder how many times he skipped initialization code in that game. I'm starting to understand why that game is as broken as it is...

Broken… In terms of the IPG and PCM stuff? And all the other stuff that gets exploited for scoring?

 

[Droolie]

It looks like the only remaining ones (I'm counting 3) are from the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 versions. Is that something that can be checked easily in RayMap or should we expect similar shenanigans?

Yeah I think we can expect similar shenanigans as that feature still exists in those versions...
Even if it didn't, the current version of raymap doesn't properly parse the PS2 scripts. And the PS1 version doesn't even have scripts to parse - they were converted to C and added to the executable (or executableS - every level has a separate one ) for better performance, so you'd have to use a tool like Ghidra to find what the game does with the pirates' HP values there.

It looks like 15 is set by default though? Or is this not reliable?

It is, but the CustomBits AI functions and procedures use 1-indexed custom bit numbers (1-32), while the ones in raymap are 0-indexed (0-31).
Also, nice that you can see the initial scripts listed there after all. I completely forgot we added this in the Unity version.

That's pretty interesting! So technically you could set CustomBit 30 on any object in the Canopy and Globox would run scared?

Looking at a level where this actually happens, there's a 3rd object that checks this CustomBit on the pirate (stored in DsgVar 1) and then sets a CustomBit on Globox (in GLob_10, it's CCC_PeurPontEnFlammes). So yes, if you would change that object's DsgVar 1 variable from the pirate to some other object and enable/disable custom bit 30 on that other object, Globox should be scared of it.

Broken… In terms of the IPG and PCM stuff? And all the other stuff that gets exploited for scoring?

Yep. There are so many glitches used for speedrunning that break the game, that the speedrunning community started calling Rayman 3 "Rayman 06" at some point (because, you know, Sonic 06): https://raymanpc.com/wiki/en/List_of_glitches_in_Rayman_3

 

[Hunchman801]

Yeah I think we can expect similar shenanigans as that feature still exists in those versions...
Even if it didn't, the current version of raymap doesn't properly parse the PS2 scripts. And the PS1 version doesn't even have scripts to parse - they were converted to C and added to the executable (or executableS - every level has a separate one ) for better performance, so you'd have to use a tool like Ghidra to find what the game does with the pirates' HP values there.

Maybe moving Rayman around using a memory editor will end up being easier.

 

[The Jonster]

Ok, so I gots a question for anyone around here who has the N64 version of Rayman 2. I was recently playing Rayman 2 on Project64 when I noticed that after waiting awhile on the title screen a demo of the game would start playing for a little bit before the title screen returns, and then the cycle repeats. I was wondering how fast the demos really go on an actual N64? When I looked at the demos they were running like someone had toggled a fast-forward function onto them.

 

[Elite Piranha]

Ok, so I gots a question for anyone around here who has the N64 version of Rayman 2. I was recently playing Rayman 2 on Project64 when I noticed that after waiting awhile on the title screen a demo of the game would start playing for a little bit before the title screen returns, and then the cycle repeats. I was wondering how fast the demos really go on an actual N64? When I looked at the demos they were running like someone had toggled a fast-forward function onto them.

I think that might an issue with the emulator, I found 2 videos of the N64 titlescreen and they both go at different speeds:

 

[The Jonster]

The second video has the speed I usually get when I play on Project64 with the demos going really fast for some reason but the rest of the game plays at a normal speed for me. Too bad I don't have the original cartridge so I could test this out myself, hopefully someone who does can answer that question for me.

 

[Elite Piranha]

The second video has the speed I usually get when I play on Project64 with the demos going really fast for some reason but the rest of the game plays at a normal speed for me. Too bad I don't have the original cartridge so I could test this out myself, hopefully someone who does can answer that question for me.

Well, I was watching this video and according to ProtonJon he is using an actual N64 and cartridge (min. 3:43:13), footage of the title screen in 1:24:40:

 

[Reese Riverson]

The second video has the speed I usually get when I play on Project64 with the demos going really fast for some reason but the rest of the game plays at a normal speed for me. Too bad I don't have the original cartridge so I could test this out myself, hopefully someone who does can answer that question for me.

I could always grab my N64 from my bedroom and hook it up to the capture card on my main desktop and record it for you if you'd like. If you haven't yet found your answer already.

 

[The Jonster]

Oh that would be great! I'd like to see how the demos look on a real N64!

 

[Steo]

If I'm not mistaken, even neo was thinking their N64 emulator was going too fast at some point during the recent stream.

EDIT: I also have the cart here, but unfortunately I have no way to hook the N64 to my TV until I get some sort of scaler for it.

Then again, Hoodcom might give a better example anyway given they would have an NTSC copy while I have PAL.

 

[Master]

So what you're saying is now Hoodie needs to play the N64 version he owns on genuine hardware against neo. Then we can see the difference ourselves

It'd be funny at least

 

[Reese Riverson]

Oh that would be great! I'd like to see how the demos look on a real N64!

So what you're saying is now Hoodie needs to play the N64 version he owns on genuine hardware against neo. Then we can see the difference ourselves

It'd be funny at least

How about we don't and say we did.

I'm quite partial to the Dreamcast version, and I'd be willing to play the PS1 version, hell, I'd be willing to play the 3DS version. I just don't think I'd want to go through with it on the N64.

Though sometime tomorrow or Saturday I need to try to get the N64 setup with Rayman 2 for that video for Jonster. (Jonster, please don't hesitate to remind me on Discord, thanks man! )

 

[Master]

So what you're saying is now Hoodie needs to play the N64 version he owns on genuine hardware against neo. Then we can see the difference ourselves

It'd be funny at least

How about we don't and say we did.

Poor N64 version, not getting attention and the spotlight. I notice you didn't mention the PS2 version, that a hard pass as well?

 

[Reese Riverson]

Poor N64 version, not getting attention and the spotlight. I notice you didn't mention the PS2 version, that a hard pass as well?

Poor N64 version you say, as you're also the one who refuses to play that version as well.

I don't know, I haven't really decided for the PS2 version. I know the performance is uh, not as good as the Dreamcast is.

Though if you have any valid reasons I should include it on the play list, then please by all means talk me into it.

 

[Master]

Hey I just don't want the MIDI tracks overwriting the CD ones in my head. It's weird quirk for me to get worked up over, but I much prefer the standard OST over the MIDI. Game itself is probs fine.

As for PS2 (Rayman Revolution), it's the most drastically different version of Rayman 2 out there (I'm not counting Forever). It's worth a look just to see those differences and the many many additions alone. And if you've got a decent PC to emulate it on (and I know for a fact that you do), it's perfectly playable, and there's performance and wide-screen cheats you can use to have it perform and look better.

Perhaps I may stream Revolution at some point, if it's of curiosity.

 

[Reese Riverson]

Hey I just don't want the MIDI tracks overwriting the CD ones in my head. It's weird quirk for me to get worked up over, but I much prefer the standard OST over the MIDI. Game itself is probs fine.

Then we both prefer the standard OST over the MIDI one.

As for PS2 (Rayman Revolution), it's the most drastically different version of Rayman 2 out there (I'm not counting Forever). It's worth a look just to see those differences and the many many additions alone. And if you've got a decent PC to emulate it on (and I know for a fact that you do), it's perfectly playable, and there's performance and wide-screen cheats you can use to have it perform and look better.

Perhaps I may stream Revolution at some point, if it's of curiosity.

What, are you saying I can't use performance cheats on my PS2 to make Rayman Revolution run better?

I never have looked into Forever though, but I do definitely have the physical copy of Revolution on hand so playing it on native hardware or emulating it is no problem in the end there. I know wide-screen cheats are common even with actual hardware, but I don't know if the same could work for performance.

 

[Master]

Ahh, it wasn't a cheat, it was a patch.

I mean you're welcome to play on legitimate hardware (it's how I first played Revolution), but if emulation gives superior performance then that's what I'd personally recommend.

 

[Steo]

I always preferred to use the real hardware personally because I was just always like that, however, in cases like this where you can actually make the game run at 60fps instead of like 12, it's of course a lot more beneficial. I also like the idea that the Dreamcast emulator can upscale the textures to a high resolution too, but even the OG Dreamcast looks pretty good to me, especially for its time.