Talk:The Magician

?

Is it just a coincidence that Alesmansay is Pig Latin for 'Salesman'? Like the Grolgoth salesman perhaps? --iHeckler9 16:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

He grants Electoons and bonus levels for payment in Lums and Tings. I'm pretty sure that's what makes him a salesman. —Spiraldoor 17:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Image

Regarding the new image of the Magician that Spanex recently created – should we start removing the backgrounds from all character template pictures like this? I think the previous image with the Magician against the dark background and pink floor was better, but I figured it would be interesting to hear what everyone else has to say about it. Which style of picture is better for the templates – this or this? —Spiraldoor 15:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't the new kind of picture be considered as cropped? Also, MarioWiki does not seem to "cut" the background in their pictures so I would stay with the backgrounds. --Haruka 16:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure how the image was created; you'd have to ask Spanex. I suppose it's sort of a slippery slope when you start allowing people to construct semi-official images from sprite-sheets. —Spiraldoor 16:14, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, the artworks made with droolie's templates aren't official at all, but we're trying to create them based on screenshots to make them look as exact as possible. However, I can't dare to create a "semi-official" artwork for the Magician without asking first, because he's a really important character, but at the same time requires an updated picture for the profile template. By the way, the cropped picture looks great, but I think the original is better.--Sergiomonty 17:26, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Another thing is that Rayfan's been claiming that the picture of the Magician we've been using this whole time is stretched. Is this correct? He's always looked that way in my copies of the game. —Spiraldoor 17:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The magician's nose makes it look like the whole picture is stretched, but it isn't, I've checked that before.--Sergiomonty 17:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Well it looks like somebody changed it back to the original file. I personally like keeping backgrounds out. But if people don't want this then I'll stop.

P.S. I was about to submit a picture to Murray until I checked this page. It's still there, just not on the page. Spanex 20:25, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The main reason we've been using custom images for Rayman Origins characters is that it's nearly impossible to get proper screenshots from the game itself. The Murray image you uploaded is fine for the article, as it's the best picture of him we can currently get our hands on. More high-quality, background-free pictures of Rayman Origins characters are welcome, but editing out the backgrounds of images already on the wiki doesn't really add anything. —Spiraldoor 20:39, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Spiraldoor, I will keep this in mind. Meantime I should go tell this to the people over at the forum. You won't see any old image editing from me anymore. Spanex 20:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The tombstone of the Magician?

Sometimes the Land of the Livid Dead, we can see mausoleums of ennemies from Rayman Origins. Notably for Stone Men, a Hunter and a Lividstone. At the beginning of the Land of the Livid Dead, in the background, we can see a tombstone with a hat engraved on it. This hat looks like the Magician's magic hat. Although his death at the end of Rayman Origins isn't confirmed (but she is very possible), like there are mausoleum of some of his dead soldiers in the Land, could it be his tombstone? Boomboleros7 20:16, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Pics of each or it didn't happen. --iHeckler9 20:24, 11 March 2012 (CET)

Hats aren't that unique. If it's a dark-blue top hat with a yellow star on it, then we'll talk. —Spiraldoor 20:26, 11 March 2012 (CET)

You can enter the Land of the Livid Dead before defeating the Magician, so... no, the Magician's death is not hinted there.--Sergiomonty 23:16, 12 March 2012 (CET)

I'm with both Spiral and Sergio. --Haruka 13:20, 13 March 2012 (CET)

I hadn't even noticed those tombs though; mentioning them in the corresponding articles would be great. — 11:14, 14 March 2012 (CET)

New profile picture for the Magician

I spend my time reassembling pieces of artwork from the characters of Rayman Origins (thanks to Droolie) and put them on the wiki normally. However, this is the Magician, an important character, and I need everyone's agreement to put this picture on the Magician's profile like every other article. The profile picture we have now is too old, and we need something new; however, there's no artwork of the magician anywhere, there's only the picture with the Magician cosplaying as Mr Dark, but the design is too different and counts more like scrapped content. That's why I made this almost-exact replica, based on a screenshot I took from the Reveal. This doesn't mean that we're gonna forget about the old picture, there's enough space in the article for it. So, what do you think? I made most of the pieces of artwork for Rayman Origins articles, but I need thoughts here. Thanks --Sergiomonty 00:45, 29 April 2012 (CEST)

I think it should be changed. --iHeckler9 11:05, 29 April 2012 (CEST)

Seeing as this image is not of The Magician, but of the Dark Teensies, who've now gotten their own article, shall we revert to another image?

I think so. --iHeckler9 10:20, 7 October 2013 (CEST)

Cousins

I just saw that two new cousins were added as relatives (Meiko and Kaito). From which games are they? -- 07:24, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm inclined to believe that it's some attempt at fanon or just vandalism, there's not been any other articles on them, and it's the only edit made by the user who added it in. I'm removing it for now, if it is added in again, some citation or proof would be needed.-- 18:11, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I guessed. But I wasn't sure since I haven't played any of the educational games where I know he appears. -- 20:02, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Reasons?

Could the user(s) give a valid and coherent reason of why they don't wanna let me edit the article in peace and keep reverting all my edits? Because I didn't get any so far! Purple bubble (talk) 22:00, 26 September 2023 (CEST)

As a consequence of the OP's failure to follow the resolution process detailed here, this debate is now closed. — 20:29, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

Ales Mansay, mixed villains, cousin

The name Ales Mansay is still used by people who worked on Rayman Origins and Legends and on the series in general (including the fact that he was called Mr. Dark before the release of Rayman Origins to avoid spoilers, even on the online stores of PlayStation and XBox), the character is really a mix of the previous villains of the series, and he had a cousin only in the non-canonical educational spin-off English with Rayman, so technically it doesn't count and it needs to be specified, just like for Razorbeard and Razorwife. Purple bubble (talk) 22:08, 26 September 2023 (CEST)

As a consequence of the OP's failure to follow the resolution process detailed here, this debate is now closed. — 20:29, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

Mr. Dark as a name

The latest changes to this article added the following line to the trivia section: "In promotional material for Rayman Origins, probably to to [sic] avoid spoilers, he was called Mr Dark."

Since the references point to a PlayStation Network avatar, this should be referred to as such, rather than the generic "promotional material", but this is not the most important here.

What matters more is the identity of the character depicted on the avatar itself. As detailed here, both a 2011 interview and the website for Rayman Origins show that Mr Dark was meant to appear in the game, but was eventually scrapped. Therefore, the character in the avatar, of whom nothing can be seen underneath his hat and cloak, is most likely Mr Dark himself, before he was replaced by the Magician.

What adds to the confusion is this picture, which is currently labeled on this wiki as "The Magician disguised as his idol, Mr Dark" or "The Magician takes on the mantle of Mr Dark". Due to the clothes being identical, this may tend to indicate that the character in the avatar is also the Magician.

However, boomboleros7 brought this up as early as 2012, explaining that there is no reason to believe that the character in the second image is in fact the Magician disguised as Mr Dark, but rather Mr Dark before his removal from the game. In short, Mr Dark was originally made a Teensie, and they reused his appearance as the Magician's when he was cut from the game. Boombo's remark was never acted upon on the English wiki, but the French wiki does correctly label this image as Mr Dark and not the Magician.

Therefore, I believe that the information on the English wiki is erroneous (including remarks such as "The dark character who appeared in the trailer and the site was simply the Magician disguised as Mr Dark.") and should be changed to reflect the fact that Mr Dark was to be made a Teensie before he was scrapped and that his appearance was reused (albeit slightly altered) for the Magician. This also means changing the descriptions for this picture, and moving the information about the PlayStation Network avatars to the Mr Dark article.

What do you guys think about this? — 20:29, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

I've always been of the opinion that the Wiki shouldn't be the arbiter of what's "canon," we should take the information we've been given and present it at face value. It should be left to the reader to make conclusions if there's no explicit evidence (moreso these days since it seems the Wiki actually does influence official material now - which IMO means we need to be even more careful, god knows we've had enough grief in the past for assuming things like RayLy)

With that in mind, if the official material we've gotten has never stated that The Magician was being disguised as Mr Dark in that image, then it's not our place to make that assumption. If there is official information that has been given that does state otherwise, even if it's not in the final game, then it should take precedence over what we've assumed (even if we just mention it as a possibility as opposed to objective fact if it's not in the final product). We shouldn't be contradicting official material unless there is other material (like I supposed in this case perhaps the beta scripts) that could validly abrogate earlier material.

So, yeah I'm in agreement, much as I like the idea of it being the Magician in cosplay, I don't remember any material that would state it as such. --Master (talk) 20:48, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

What Master said. It is NOT for us to make assumptions, we must present the information we are given at face value. The PSN avatar is called Mr. Dark? Then it's Mr. Dark. The concept art was called Mr. Dark on the official website? Then it's Mr. Dark, not the Magician, Barack Obama or Donald Trump. End of story. --#Rubber mark# (talk) 21:10, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

Strangesolo is here! About the Magician and Mr Dark, I also think that Mr Dark's design for Origins was reused and altered a bit for Magician (like there is no swirls on Magician's nose, while Mr Dark had them or that he had more longer hair), it could also explain about why's Magician's sprites are still called as "dark" in the files of Origins. And in the official website's description, he was called as Mr Dark and his filename also named as "char-mr-dark", so I think that's Mr Dark and not Magician at all.

And speaking of that, there is funny thing that in 9th issue of "The Daily Bubble", Mr Dark (as Teensy) and the Magician appears at the same page.--Strangesolo (talk) 21:16, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

It seems pretty clear-cut, there's incorrect info here, and it should be expunged. This seems easier to deal with than the Gonzo thing... Plumgmk (talk) 22:16, 30 September 2023 (CEST)

Strangesolo is here again! I have a question: where is this "In promotional material for Rayman Origins, probably to to avoid spoilers, he was called Mr Dark" information even come from? Does anyone have a source of that claim or it's just an assumption? If it was based on the old Origins website info about Mr Dark (him, not Magician), then that's wrong. It also contradicts with thing with 9th issue of "The Daily Bubble", where is Mr Dark and Magician appears on the same page. If they really wanted to avoid spoilers for Rayman Origins, they wouldn't put two suspiciously similar designs of two different characters on the same page for "The Daily Bubble".--Strangesolo (talk) 10:26, 1 October 2023 (CEST)

I'm in agreement: this article is wrongly trying to promote some Magician cosplay theory while the simplest explanation to the information we have is that Mr Dark was planned for inclusion and later replaced with the Magician. Both articles must be corrected. --Hoodlumsworld (talk) 15:05, 1 October 2023 (CEST)

Given the overwhelmingly positive response, I have made the changes. Feel free to bring up any issues here. — 21:09, 1 October 2023 (CEST)

About details of minor changes between Mr. Dark and Magician's Origins designs and reasons for removing them from the page

Hello everyone, StrangeSolo is here!

I want to reach a consensus regarding latest changes and undos about details of minor changes between Mr. Dark and Magician's Origins designs that I did brought them up in previous section here and have been added by Humch, as Purple bubble have been removing them for no proper explanation and it feels like there is another edit warring is going on now and since Purple bubble didn't create the section for this, so I will do that instead.

Purple bubble, I would gently ask you to explain the reasons behind removing details of minor changes and why is it, in quote, "seems irrelevant to specify, far-fetched". I would also appreciate your answer towards this "As far as we know, it may be a coincidence or a mistake" part, since from what I saw, there is no coincidence or mistake here, but I would still wait for your explanation. --Strangesolo (talk) 11:46, 10 October 2023 (CEST)

Thank you StrangeSolo for actively trying to reach consensus; I wish everyone would do the same instead of polluting page history with revert after revert. Anyway, regarding those differences, it's only thanks to your comment that I noticed them, therefore I thought it would be valuable information for others too. Though not of prime importance, I do not find them irrelevant, and it should be left to the reader to decide whether it is "a coincidence or a mistake". — 00:52, 11 October 2023 (CEST)

You're welcome, Humch! And I wish too!

And I'm agree with you completely. It's pretty valuable information, since those differences aren't really noticeable and very easy to miss, but it gives more understanding of differences between Origins Mr. Dark's and final Magician designs and changes during the development. Even his nose is a bit different, since it looks like a little more sharper than Magician's design in the prototype and in the final game, where is he has rounder nose as well, but I didn't mention that before because of specifics of Origins' art style in general, my apologies.

And about "a coincidence or a mistake" part, you're right! It should be left to the reader to decide and think about it, not for the editor to do so at all. --Strangesolo (talk) 13:45, 11 October 2023 (CEST)

I would like to report that Purple bubble is AGAIN ignoring discussions and directly reverting other people's contributions. Can something be done about this user? They refuse to follow the rules and keep starting edit wars. I support StrangeSolo's point, by the way. --Hoodlumsworld (talk) 12:25, 16 October 2023 (CEST)