Before you go any further, what makes you so sure that Origins has renamed the mosquito species to 'Moskitoes'? It seems to be based mainly on your own conjecture – I haven't seen the word 'Moskito' used as anything other than a name for the individual encountered in R1. Do you have any solid evidence? Usually we consult one another before moving major pages around. —Spiraldoor 18:16, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Reviewers call them "Moskitoes", Michel ancel says "ride a Moskito" in several interviews (that confirms them as species), and the official website states that they're called moskitoes now. There's no reference to "Mosquitoes" anymore in Rayman Origins, just "Moskitoes". There are 4 visible moskitoes in the game, they're all pink, no one seems to be evil, and there are also some baby moskitoes who ironically carry globox (and his skins respectively). The original moskito never befriended Rayman, and this one resembles more Bzzzit. I suggest to leave the articles like this, since there's nothing that affects the difference between Moskitoes and Moskito and I used a disambiguation to avoid confusions. Also, the term "Mosquito" redirects to the species called "Moskito", nothing is lost. --Sergiomonty 18:24, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- Actually the official website identifies one of them as 'Moskito', and the language used suggests that 'Moskito' is an individual male. I imagine it's quite possible that this 'Moskito' is indeed the same 'Moskito' we met in R1. I doubt the developers would want to bring up the whole 'Bzzit' mess by taking Revolution into account; I've never shaken the impression that there was only one mosquito in R1 anyway, in much the same way that I've always held to my convictions about glutes being Globox's species. I'd also question the validity of reviewers and Ancel calling them 'Moskitoes' – how would the reviewers know the name of the species if all they have to go on is the game itself, and how can you tell Ancel is saying 'Moskitoes' if it's pronounced the same way as 'Moskitoes'?
- You're probably right, but it's not as clear-cut as you may think. I'm still not sure if it was a good idea to move the page, as we haven't done that for Darktoons, Lividstones or the Bubble Dreamer, even though those instances of renaming are very clear. Even the sysops don't do stuff like that without discussing it first. —Spiraldoor 18:47, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I thought the bubble dreamer was officially confirmed to be "Polokus" a long time ago. The lividstones are called like this possibly to avoid copyright or identity issues, there are lots of people and places called "Livingstone" or "Livingstones". Also, the darktoons are kind of different from the Antitoons, I can't see how they got related by the fans. Antitoons are "small bodies of dark energy which began to proliferate after Mr Dark stole the Great Protoon". Darktoons are small pieces of nightmares created by Jano. They're completely different... I'm going to separate both articles later. Anyway, let's stop going off-topic there's an example of what I say about the moskito, check this daily bubble:
- There's an "Unibrown steppe Moskito". This moskito is completely different to Rayman's moskito, and by the name it has, I can tell its some kind of subspecies from the original moskitoes. And yeah, maybe it was scrapped, but it's a clear evidence of the developers having the idea of turning the word "Moskito" into species more than a character itself. Anyway, I think you're right, we should take more people and discuss about the moskito/mosquito before turning the articles back to what they were before. --Sergiomonty 19:07, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I just mentioned Darktoons and Lividstones as an example, but they're really a whole other kettle of fish. Since both Antitoons and Darktoons are supposed to be the opposite of Electoons, it doesn't really make sense to suggest that they're meant to be different creatures, and if you look closely, you'll notice many similarities between them. I know Antitoons proliferated when Mr Dark stole the Protoon, but then again, piranhas proliferated too, but that doesn't mean that Mr Dark created them. It seems that evil creatures swarm and multiply whenever the natural balance in Rayman's world is disrupted, and go down in population when harmony is restored. As you said, many people and places are called 'Livingstone' – I imagine that's how the R1 team came up with the name in the first place, and you can't copyright a common name (at least not the last time I checked).
- The Moskito with the unibrow is another valid point. I don't think we should go back to using 'Mosquito', but I think we should definitely put the actual Moskito page to good use. The articles are currently at Moskito (Rayman 1) and Moskito (species), but it wasn't necessary to move both of them, and generally bracketed annotations like those should be avoided. (This is the reason we use Rayman rather than Rayman (character).) Maybe we could use Moskito for the R1 boss and Moskitoes for the species? —Spiraldoor 19:26, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think writting "Moskitoes" in plural is a good idea. If we do that, then we should call all of the articles related to species "teensies", "lums" instead of "teensie" and "lum". Let's try to keep it like this. The disambiguation is not a big problem since the original Moskito hasn't made any return yet. Oh, by the way, if "Darktoons" and "Antitoons" are going to share the same article, even when they have their differences, I suggest to put the Crowned teensies article into the Grand Minimus article, since they're almost the same. Every teensie wearing a crown thinks he's the grand minimus, and according to Rayman Origins, the zombie teensie is called "The Original Grand Minimus", suggesting that the real Grand Minimus is already dead.--Sergiomonty 19:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I don't see why using Moskitoes for an article should mean that we have to use Teensies and Lums, any more than using Moskito (Rayman 1) means we have to use Mr Sax (Rayman 1). I'm talking about making a special exception, not a new rule. I'm resistant to the idea of using Moskito (Rayman 1) for several reasons; firstly, everyone has been calling that boss Moskito for so long that it would be kind of annoying to rename it (which is the reason iHeckler and I didn't move Space Mama to Mama), and secondly, because the wiki already contains an enormous amount of Moskito links which were intended to point to that boss's page, but will now point to the page of his species. To be honest I liked everything the way it was before – Moskito and mosquito was nice, manageable straightforward. I wouldn't have changed anything, beyond adding 'also known as Moskitoes...' to the start of the mosquito article.
- As for the zombie Grand Minimus, that's a can of headaches I'd rather not open at the moment. Let's wait till we've all played through Rayman Origins before discussing any more of these confusing matters. —Spiraldoor 20:09, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I have an idea, let's change the name of "Moskito (Rayman 1)" to just "Moskito" . Instead of "Moskitoes", let's keep the other article as "Moskito (species)". What do you think? --Sergiomonty 22:01, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
First of all, your behaviour is absolutely unacceptable, Sergio. Moving major pages is only done after a stable consensus is reached between administrators and other members who feel like giving their opinion, and you did it without asking or even telling anyone.
Now let's focus on the principal matter, and forget the other issues at the moment. There's definitely a problem with the name of the species we've been referring to as 'mosquito' so far, and even though reviewers cannot be considered a valid source, the name 'Moskito' appears several times in the French version of the game, in the name of the levels travelled on mosquito back. While it could only refer to one of them, the others being of the similar species, we have a Daily Bubble that clearly uses the word 'moskito' for another species. On the other hand, the official website refers to Moskito as a single character! That's what I call an inextricable bunch of nonsense.
I think it is safe to assume that the word 'Moskito' is used as both the name of the character from the original game and its species. I'm not happy with the way Sergio moved the articles though: While 'Moskito (species)' may be a good replacement for 'Mosquito' (which I think is suitable), 'Moskito (Rayman 1)' is just plain stupid in my opinion, and should be reverted back to the plain 'Moskito'. I see that's what Sergio suggested at one point, and I think it's a good idea (for a start). — 23:26, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, seriously, I was just trying to contribute, I didn't know anything about the consensus until now. It won't happen again. Sorry again. --Sergiomonty 05:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- Fortunately no harm done. I think the main question, now, is whether Moskito from the original game is one of the Moskitos/mosquitoes present in Rayman Origins. The site seems to support this idea, but once again it's subject to interpretation (I think the soldier is described using the third-person singular as well), and, even worse, I get the impression that the developers really didn't even think about it. I suggest we don't speculate too much and leave Moskito alone, talking only about the species when it comes to Origins. All opinions welcome. — 11:43, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
- I think it would be a good idea to move Moskito (species) back to Mosquito. We didn't move Livingstone to Lividstone, or Antitoon to Darktoon, so why should this be an exception? The fact that we already have a perfectly good official species name – 'mosquito' – that doesn't clash with the name of the individual in Rayman 1 is further reason to change it back to the way it was. Simple, straightforward article names are preferable to complicated ones with bracketed annotations. (Of course, the line ‘Mosquitoes, lately known as Moskitoes...’, should be left the way it is now, as it tells the reader all they need to know.) —Spiraldoor 14:45, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Well... ok--Sergiomonty 02:03, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Well, which place would be better for a project discussion than this? Well, I've checked some other wiki pages, and they have some articles with sections called "Name in other Languages". I will explain it more clearly with an example; Take Jibberish Jungle:
|Spanish||Jungla Selvaje||While Jungla means "Jungle", Selvaje is a portmaneau of Selva (which also means "Jungle") and Salvaje (which means "Wild").|
|French||Jungle à bafouilles||Literal traslation for Jibberish Jungle|
|Deutsch||Dichtendes Dickicht||Dense Jungle|
This would bring some good information about traslations in other countries. Of course this is just a "sketch", this project would require the help from people who talk different languages; Google traslate wouldn't help at all, as the traslation system in Rayman Origins (for example) tends to use various word games, puns, and pop-culture references that only could be detailed perfectly by people who talk fluidly the languages. This system could apply on levels from Rayman Origins, Rayman 2 and Rayman 3. well... I need thoughts here. --Sergiomonty 07:47, 14 April 2012 (CEST)
Could you please:
- avoid uploading images and leaving them unused
- add the image templates and categories when uploading an image?